I don't know whether this is in response to what I wrote but in case it is, this isn't actually how I characterized the situation with Riley. I wrote:
'She completely missed everything that was going on with Riley in Season 5, and I don't blame her for any of that because she had a hell of a lot going on. But Riley wasn't subtle with what he was feeling and she was completely blindsided... when it was brought to her attention by others.'
It wasn't a 'here, look, I have this grievance' so much as an list of things that had led me to developing my view. It wasn't an accusation. [And I only responded on that board because a quote of mine had been brought there and had become part of a conversation that I wasn't involved in.]
I think that I don't hold her shortcomings against her because to do so would be to hold her to impossible standards And I think that this may be a difference in approach that leads to our having a couple degrees of latitude of difference in outlooks overall. It's as much a philosophical difference as a
( ... )
Not really! Though the discussion shifting to about Riley got me thinking about other stuff I've been noticing. A lot of the harsh stuff I've read about Buffy has come in response to Season 8, which Norwie points... well it gets complicated. And some of it is by the people Eilowyn has creative nicknames for, you know, and some of it stems back to a few weeks ago with some Tumblr haterade.
The impossible standard in particular is something I encountered a few weeks ago and it helped crystallized my thoughts. If you want more specifics, PM, okay? And I'll share more about that. Cheers.
It took me a while to have sympathy for Riley, but then I realized how much it must suck to have essentially lost everything in Season 4. He lost his best friend, his mentor, his job, his team, his mission, his "super"powers. All he's got left is Buffy. And by Season 5, that's not enough. His self-esteem is at an all-time low and I think some of his sexist attitudes mix with his lashing out due to his identity crisis.
And it's bad.
I also like that you point out heroines are expected not only to be the superhero but to be emotional superheros to everyone around them. What are we? We're girls. Pretty damn fierce girls, but that doesn't mean we can give everything all the time and bounce back with no problems.Right-o, lady
( ... )
I really think a lot of it is tied into the idea that women are supposed to cater to others' emotional needs above and beyond their own. That's part of the essence of femininity. So you have Buffy, a character who has some righteously masculine attributes (saving the world through physical violence) who also is expected to maintain the feminine "virtue" of self-sacrificial nurturing. Whereas the men who hold that particular masculine attribute that Buffy does are allowed to have people (women) catering to their emotional needs, Buffy doesn't have that luxury. No, she has to also pay attention to and help...everyone. Doing otherwise makes her selfish.
It's a harsh standard, and Buffy's very much in a no-win situation. Not noticing Riley's massive breakdown when he's actively hiding it isn't a failure on Buffy's part. Maybe if Xander had given her the head's up or Riley had sat down to talk to her instead of getting avoid-y, sure. But I can't blame the Buffster for not noticing Riley's woes when she's in the
( ... )
Whereas the men who hold that particular masculine attribute that Buffy does are allowed to have people (women) catering to their emotional needs, Buffy doesn't have that luxury. No, she has to also pay attention to and help...everyone. Doing otherwise makes her selfish.
God yes. So much this.
And really yes to everything.
If she'd known, of course she would have tried to help him. She did so in OOMM when she gives him a tearfully impassioned speech to convince him to go in for surgery. I have no doubt she would have done so again if she'd known something was wrong.Yes! If she'd known how badly he was tanking, she wouldn't been there for him. But I think that's honestly the last thing he wanted. It would've been like... an indignity. Like he has nothing left and now he's clinging to his girlfriend for emotional support. And I totally understand why he's hiding his weakness because wow, I do that too. And Buffy does it too. It's hard being weak and vulnerable to another person. But what's ironic to me is that he wants
( ... )
Yeah. I have sympathy for Riley in S5 (up until he blames Buffy for it all in ITW, but anyway). He's having a total breakdown, and he's kinda trapped himself in this emotional corner that he just can't get out of. His only option is to bail, which he eventually does.
Yes! If she did have endless emotional and intellectual reserves along with strength, she wouldn't be as interesting. I'm not sure she'd even be as heroic, even if she could do more, as it would make everything so very easy for her.
Buffy shamelessly neglected Riley in Season 5What? What is she, his mommy? I don't re-watch S5 too often (or, actually, at all for most of it) but I don't remember thinking she was being particularly neglectful. I totally agree that Riley was doing everything he could to keep his issues from her, and she was completely honest with him about why she was stretched thin at the time. I mean, I'm sorry for what Riley was going through, but I've never put it on Buffy
( ... )
Comments 99
'She completely missed everything that was going on with Riley in Season 5, and I don't blame her for any of that because she had a hell of a lot going on. But Riley wasn't subtle with what he was feeling and she was completely blindsided... when it was brought to her attention by others.'
It wasn't a 'here, look, I have this grievance' so much as an list of things that had led me to developing my view. It wasn't an accusation. [And I only responded on that board because a quote of mine had been brought there and had become part of a conversation that I wasn't involved in.]
I think that I don't hold her shortcomings against her because to do so would be to hold her to impossible standards And I think that this may be a difference in approach that leads to our having a couple degrees of latitude of difference in outlooks overall. It's as much a philosophical difference as a ( ... )
Reply
The impossible standard in particular is something I encountered a few weeks ago and it helped crystallized my thoughts. If you want more specifics, PM, okay? And I'll share more about that. Cheers.
Reply
(The comment has been removed)
And it's bad.
I also like that you point out heroines are expected not only to be the superhero but to be emotional superheros to everyone around them. What are we? We're girls. Pretty damn fierce girls, but that doesn't mean we can give everything all the time and bounce back with no problems.Right-o, lady ( ... )
Reply
(The comment has been removed)
Reply
I really think a lot of it is tied into the idea that women are supposed to cater to others' emotional needs above and beyond their own. That's part of the essence of femininity. So you have Buffy, a character who has some righteously masculine attributes (saving the world through physical violence) who also is expected to maintain the feminine "virtue" of self-sacrificial nurturing. Whereas the men who hold that particular masculine attribute that Buffy does are allowed to have people (women) catering to their emotional needs, Buffy doesn't have that luxury. No, she has to also pay attention to and help...everyone. Doing otherwise makes her selfish.
It's a harsh standard, and Buffy's very much in a no-win situation. Not noticing Riley's massive breakdown when he's actively hiding it isn't a failure on Buffy's part. Maybe if Xander had given her the head's up or Riley had sat down to talk to her instead of getting avoid-y, sure. But I can't blame the Buffster for not noticing Riley's woes when she's in the ( ... )
Reply
God yes. So much this.
And really yes to everything.
If she'd known, of course she would have tried to help him. She did so in OOMM when she gives him a tearfully impassioned speech to convince him to go in for surgery. I have no doubt she would have done so again if she'd known something was wrong.Yes! If she'd known how badly he was tanking, she wouldn't been there for him. But I think that's honestly the last thing he wanted. It would've been like... an indignity. Like he has nothing left and now he's clinging to his girlfriend for emotional support. And I totally understand why he's hiding his weakness because wow, I do that too. And Buffy does it too. It's hard being weak and vulnerable to another person. But what's ironic to me is that he wants ( ... )
Reply
Reply
Reply
Reply
Reply
xxx
Reply
I think I have my wank wires crossed. :P
Haha say that three times fast!
Reply
Buffy shamelessly neglected Riley in Season 5What? What is she, his mommy? I don't re-watch S5 too often (or, actually, at all for most of it) but I don't remember thinking she was being particularly neglectful. I totally agree that Riley was doing everything he could to keep his issues from her, and she was completely honest with him about why she was stretched thin at the time. I mean, I'm sorry for what Riley was going through, but I've never put it on Buffy ( ... )
Reply
Reply
Reply
Leave a comment