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lilchiva July 14 2017, 18:42:53 UTC
In case you're curious, it's not just Pakistan. There's a whole world of "secret muslim" atheists. It's incredibly heartbreaking. This people, even here in the US, risk losing their family, their jobs, and, in some circumstances, even their life. In some families it's even better to be gay, than it is to be an atheist.

I may like to give you a little pushback, when you discuss the demise of religious culture. But, I think we both agree that it's inarguable that a nominally secular society is far superior to any number of other options. There has got to be some sensible way that people can unite against theocratic states, without simultaneously besmirching (or being perceived to besmirch) all the lovely things that any given religious practice has to offer.

But, with my friends at home and online, this seems like an impossible conversation to have. I don't have any solutions. But, I was curious, if maybe you had some thoughts on why that might be.

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andrewducker July 16 2017, 15:28:34 UTC
Oh goodness yeah. I'm all about people getting to work things through and come to their own conclusions. I may disagree with their conclusions (sometimes vociferously), but I'd much rather they had the right to them than anyone not.

I think that the answer to theocratic states is liberalism. And not the anti-religion "Everything has to be justified in its service to the improvement of the social good" left liberalism, but actual "Everyone has a right to their opinion, so long as they aren't actively harming others against their will" liberalism.

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