Interesting Links for 15-02-2017

[andrewducker]

Nokia 3310, 'the world's most reliable phone', to be re-launched (tags: phones nokia viaSwampers ) Explaining Vous vs Tu perfectly (tags: france language visualisation ) With Mike Pence gone, more reasonable Republicans undo his work in Indiana (tags: republicans usa politics ) 48 Questions the FBI Uses to Determine if Someone Is a Likely

Comments

[supergee]

End of fillings in sight as scientists find Alzheimer's drug makes teeth grow back: Now if only you could remember whom to bite

[kalimac]

Your question about America is answered by the errors and randomizations inherent in European explorers trying to transcribe Native American names, and then in transferring them from one European language to another (usually French or Spanish to English). In early days you'd sometimes see "Kansas" spelled as "Kansaw." Whether (Ar)Kansas is pronounced with a final S or not depends on which language the natives were speaking, what form of word they were saying, who transcribed it, what route the transcription took, and finally a huge argument that broke out in the Arkansas state legislature around 1900, which the silent-S faction won.

Further adding to confusion, it's a peculiar fact that "Oregon" and "Wisconsin" are also actually originally the same native word as each other, a river name, mutated beyond recognizability in both cases.

The best source for reading about things like this is Names on the Land by George R. Stewart, yes the same guy who wrote Earth Abides and who named the wind Maria.

[andrewducker]

That is fantastic - thank you!

to-may-toe to-ma-tow

[lilchiva]

THat is quite interesting. But, it's not really the actual case with those two states. Other than a single instance of Eurocentric transliteration, for both states, the pronunciation difference drives from fairly minor native language variations. Ark-Kansas vs Ark-can-saw comes from shared root languages of the interealted Native American tribes that inhabited those areas. The actual pronunciation, for both states, can go a number of ways. (they are all locally considered valid) Ark-can-saw (akakaze) is actually what a bunch of Yankee Indians once called the people who are now, basically, the Quapaw. The French people just more or less went with that by labeling the land Arkansas. And the Kaw people, for whom Kansas is ostensibly named, were called Kanza by nearly all their other Indian relatives. And, everyone, including the Kaw people, more or less, just eventually went with that too

[kalimac]

Actually, what you're saying about the names is exactly what I'm saying. "which language the natives were speaking, what form of word they were saying ..." That's what I said, that's what you're elaborating on.

When the Kansaw (Kaw) moved to what is now Kansas is beside the point. They were there by the time the whites applied their name to the place.

[momentsmusicaux]

Yes, but many interactions fall into the 'do you feel lucky punk' bit right at the end of the flowchart...

Also, there's the difficulty of wanting to say 'tu', but addressing them + partner or family as a plural because of what you're saying, but not wanting them to think you're being formal with them.

[skington]

Glad to see that Jacques Chirac made the flowchart :-) . I came here to comment on that if it hadn't already been done.

There's another case: when you're in public, e.g. on TV speaking to a co-presenter. As colleagues you'll naturally call each other "tu" in ordinary conversation, but in this slightly more formal setting you may well say "vous". (It may also be about not wanting to seem too clubby, and by extension locking out the viewer.)

[meowpurrr]

levels of formality and non-gendered things having genders are my pet hates in languages. whenever i get an urge to learn another/relearn a language, i eventually remember this and revert to "fuck me, this is stupid, they can learn english or i just won't interact with them". being somewhat of a recluse, the latter is fairly easy.

[skington]

That E&Y thing is bizarre. It says "Our own internal research of over 400 graduates [...] found no evidence to conclude that previous success in higher education correlated with future success in subsequent professional qualifications undertaken" but also "Academic qualifications will still be taken into account and indeed remain an important consideration when assessing candidates as a whole".

Surely if there's no correlation, academic criteria should be dropped entirely as a criterion? And not merely made non-blocking?

[alextfish]

They don't say in which direction it's an "important consideration" ;)

[steer]

In Chinese there are 你 and 您 (ni and nin) which mirror slightly tu and vous in some sense. My students sometimes use the second to address me -- though I have told them they need not. (The second symbol is the same as the first but with the symbol for "heart" under it). I have not worked out the system by which I should address someone yet which is a bit concerning -- but it is highly geography dependent as well as social class and age. So tricky.

[drdoug]

Sympathy. At least it's not as bad as Japanese, which has about a dozen versions of 'you', and complex rules (i.e., I haven't got to grips with them) about when one should omit pronouns entirely. As part of a complex and intricate system of politeness and respect markers that frustrated Feynman so much he gave up on learning the language entirely.

(Sad to say, he got further than I have so far, and I don't mind mincing my words for politeness' sake the way he did.)