Why does society seem to be falling apart, even though it's not?

[andrewducker]

Over on Andy Ducker's Links I linked to a story about Robin Williams' daughter leaving social networks because she was receiving abuse after her father died

Comments

[randomdreams]

I hate to make something that could be construed as a pro-violence message, but I think a major part of the greater internet fuckwad theory is less that some people don't think about the consequences of their actions, and more that when their actions have no consequences they feel free to be complete jerks. I'm uncomfortable with the thought that there are lots of people out there who would be glad to rob me or run me down if there weren't police around, but I think it's true.

[andrewducker]

Yeah - I'd love to know more about what causes that kind of behaviour. I wonder if anyone's written anything good on it.

[randomdreams]

Personally, I think it's also the cause of at least some sexist/misogynist behavior, as well: guys won't act like jerks towards other guys because they're afraid they'll get punched, but they then feel free to act like jerks towards women. In this view of things, it's not that they hate women, it's that they fear retaliation.

[andrewducker]

Guys act like jerks towards other guys a lot. But usually in a reasonably friendly way.

And if you look at the hate mail that someone like Scalzi gets, they can get unfriendly there too.

But when women get "uppity", then the hatred _really_ gets unleashed. I think it's a "people getting above their station" response.

[theweaselking]

The fact that you thought your **** footnote needed to be made is an example of how "polite discourse" bends over backwards to encourage and enable "fuckshit assholery"

That you even CONSIDERED that "stopping hate speech" might be "censoring the unpopular" is a sad example of THE PROBLEM.

[andrewducker]

I wasn't talking about hate speech, per se

[witchwestphalia]

The **** footnote is a good point IMHO. The trouble with reasonable rules to prevent the social equivalent of yelling "fire!" in a crowded theater is that those rules can easily be twisted to silence unpopular speech. Not just speech that is offensive outside the group using it, but also unpopular art or political dissent could end up censored.

I don't know what the answer might be, unless social disapproval of the sort of cruelty Ms Williams was subjected to can be made strong enough to shut up the sorts of people who sent her offensive messages. It's a vexing problem.

[steer]

I think there's as you suggest, a huge element of scale here. I mean with that Zelda Williams thing it isn't even her followers probably... but people who decide to troll her and cause grief. So up that 170,000 to however many people have heard of Robin Williams and maybe are a bit drunk/stoned/whatever... so that figure in the millions.

One of the problems of living in a world that is internet scale is that if you are likely to be able to find a good chunk of people with an abhorrent viewpoint on a subject because you are looking through (in the case of twitter) half a billion people.

But I guess there's the whole gamut of things going on from "if your sample size is large enough then you will always find someone drunk or malicious enough to behave incredibly badly" to "everyone's a little bit racist" (avenue Q) #everydaysexism the idea that everyone has some opinions or behaviours that should be questioned.

[andrewducker]

Yup, the internet has made the world a lot smaller. Which is great in some ways - we now know more about people a long way away! And rubbish in others - we're now having to deal with all of the unpleasant ones, at once.

[steer]

I wonder what the correct balance is between:
"Let us highlight this bad behaviour so that it is clear it is unacceptable and those perpetrating it are made aware." #forgreatjustice
and
"Do not feed the troll." #donotreadbelowtheline

Don't know why I'm hashtagging livejournal. :-)

[andrewducker]

I think we'll have to take it in turns doing both :->

"Bob's worn out from downvoting Daily Mail readers. Dave, you take over."