Interesting Links for 28-06-2013

[andrewducker]

• Pandora Pays Over $1,300 for 1 Million Plays
  (tags: streaming music business )
• One tweet sums up Labour’s new, confused stance on cuts
  (tags: politics uk labour )
• What does Windows 8.1 offer to desktop die-hards?
  (tags: windows microsoft )
• Spending Review explanation 'was woeful', IFS says
  (tags: politics uk money )
• What happens if you run a 4

Comments

[bart_calendar]

My understanding is that while undercover police officers often have to do drugs, have sex, etc... in order to maintain their cover. It's shitty, but I'm fairly sure it's part of the job.

Also this sort of comes under the heading of "if I knew the person was an asshole I wouldn't have slept with them."

[steer]

What lies should I be telling?

The socially acceptable ones.

"Is this food OK?"
It is not OK. Do you answer:
a) "I am disgusted by it but eating it to attempt to keep the peace. I hope to subtly avoid you cooking again"
or
b) "It's not bad but maybe I could suggest some changes"

You may be able to come up with some version where you say to yourself that you're not lying you're just telling a varnished version of the truth. But there you go, you're clearly less strict with your definition of lying than I am. In all likelihood we're telling the same lies -- you're just defining them differently.

I'm sure you're already telling these lies, you seem like a decent and well socialised person. Consider any of those many comedies where people are struck with an affliction to tell the truth... it's never good.

[andrewducker]

Julie's cooking is fine, and the times she's ruined things (i.e., a burned spag bol earlier in the week) she's spotted it before me. I _have_ told her when I haven't liked her cooking. And shockingly, this was absolutely fine, because neither of us are twelve

[steer]

I _am_ almost pathological about the truth

Yes... me too... to a fault. Literally to a fault as I often say truths that would be best not said (and am told so). As I said, I expect our actual behaviour in terms of truth telling is not so different (though in my case it's mainly shallow affect rather than damaging past relationships). I still define my behaviour as lying which you, apparently, do not.

[andrewducker]

Which bit is it that I do that you consider lying?

(And, we're getting off the track here - the original point was about lying _in order to have someone sleep with you who would ordinarily not_.)

[steer]

Which bit is it that I do that you consider lying?

See other track conversation for example... I imagine you do most of those behaviours (either that or you would be a pretty unpleasant person to be around).

[alextfish]

Your view of society and honesty is depressing, and, frankly, incorrect. There are many people who are capable of being completely honest while still being loving and, yes, sensitive and tactful. "Honest" doesn't mean "shout every inconvenient truth in the most awkward situations"; you can still have privacy, and things that you wouldn't tell people, and even be careful to avoid hurting people with the things you say, while still being completely honest in everything you do say

[andrewducker]

Thank you.

I've actually got myself to the point where if I think "Ack, do I want to tell Julie about that?" that my instant impulse is to find her and tell her.

Seems to work very well.

[steer]

Heh... your post did give me a chuckle.

"Not really my kind of film" or "Not as good as I'd been hoping, actually" in the other.

Those are much better examples. Those are the kind of lies I'm talking about. The great thing is that you define them as true.

In my marriage of 7 years there have been a handful of times when I've knowingly lied to my wife;

Yes... it seems we just define lying differently. I suspect I've never lied to my current partner by your definition.

[alextfish]

Huh. So you'd define a lie as including any statement that's literally true, emotionally true, but not the most offensively true statement you could make at that point?

(I'm assuming that the film in question was not really my kind of film, but I'd been dragged along to it for some reason; if it was in fact in a genre I'd normally expect to enjoy then "Not really my kind of film" certainly would be a lie.)

[steer]

Yes... the social demurral is still a lie in my book. It's a white lie you can rationalise of course -- the lie you should tell.

[alextfish]

I understand you're saying (what you define as) lies are okay and indeed good. By my definition, lies are bad and to be avoided. It may well be that we have very different definitions of lie and so we don't disagree as much as earlier comments made it seem.

I'm interested, though, and would like to establish more precision, to understand better. So for clarity, what precise circumstances are you saying would or wouldn't constitute one of these "white lies"?

[steer]

So for clarity, what precise circumstances are you saying would or wouldn't constitute one of these "white lies"?It is hard to define but everything in our lives requires lying or deferring the truth to some extent. I can answer only by example

[andrewducker]

"I'm temporarily pretty annoyed with you for being late but in five minutes I will have forgotten about it and we can have a good evening."

I've said things along those lines to Julie (and vice versa). Nobody died.

I've never been asked the latter. I'll let you know what I say if it happens :->

[steer]

I've said things along those lines to Julie (and vice versa). Nobody died.

As have I (with Caron, not Julie who I've never met). You missed the part where I added that the person in question was in a temporarily agitated state and clearly had problems of their own at that point. :-)

[andrewducker]

Aaah. In that case I almost certainly wouldn't _be_ grumpy - I'd be worried about them, so I'd report that.