"Gender: It's Wicked Constructed"

[aliothsan]

I recently ran across this discussion of gendering. It starts off talking about the author's little kids being gendered by the Christmas gifts they receive, and the surprisingly large extent to which their gender is probably constructed by others' actions and expectations. It's kind of scary: For his first birthday my son got a total of nine

Comments

[ext_58919]

The science fiction scenario in which you can casually swap bodies with people (and swap back again, with no nasty side effects) is one that has a certain attraction.

In the real world, we have fundraisers such as the 40-hour famine. But imagine a world in which there was also a 40-hour bodyswap, in which you could swap bodies with someone of the opposite gender for forty hours (maybe a fundraiser for gender-related issues). It would be educational, at the very least!

[lightflake]

1. I'm leery of allegations that gender is entirely constructed. Until we have a world where boys and girls are raised identically, we won't know. (Do I suspect it's largely a social construct? Sure. Do I suspect there may be inherent differences? Same. Am I stupid enough to say I know which is which, and how far they go? Of course not...)

2. If being genderless is simply not acting, I'd say I'm somewhat close to that. However, my usual presentation--not acting (except insofar as everything is); it's what I prefer when alone--is pretty close to female.

I don't think it's been socialized, by the way; if anything, my early socialization probably should've led me towards being more masculine.

[aliothsan]

Oh, I'm not saying that gender differences are entirely due to environment. I agree with you entirely. I'm just saying that a large part of gender, larger than most people think, is constructed.

[lightflake]

Also: have you ever read The Left Hand of Darkness?

[aliothsan]

No, but it's in my heap.

[anonymous]

"The only thing I really wish were different about my body (apart from being in better health/shape) is breasts."

When I practice sword wielding in Aikido, my breasts get in the way as I move my arms up and down... an emphasis of my Sensei's to have the elbows at an "appropriate space apart". Well, mine are wider apart than the guys'. Most martial arts contemplate a man performing the moves, so mine is not perfect for anatomical reasons.

But just wait until a boyfriend shows up in your life. It's not all just about breast feeding!

Cat I

[aliothsan]

Yeah, I ran into similar things a couple times in Karate. E.g. the prescribed pull-back for certain punches is essentially hitting yourself in the chest.

And yeah, I wasn't going to mention that in a public post, but I do realize that guys like boobs. That's legitimate.

Seriously, though, on balance I'd rather not have them. They bounce around. The strap of my messenger bag goes across them all weirdly, and sometimes seatbelts do too (depends on the car). You're under constant pressure to display them. It's uncomfortable to lie on your front. Another item of clothing to purchase and launder and be poked by and worry about the color of.

Also, I know I have nothing to complain about because I'm relatively small. But still.

[saizai]

Grokked like duh.

There's one aspect of androgyny that weirds me a bit, which is when people *do* strongly gender... except they gender as both. Or the other. Or some other mix.

And that's as strange to me as machismo, perhaps more because of the almost-intentional creation of Big Duality Juxtaposition.

Instead of just going enh to gender overall.

So I'm not really sure how I feel about trans people who *feel* gendered as the other one. How can such a person stably be gender-enh, yet also respect that internal gender?

Seems kinda hard. :|