Comments | alephnul: BDSM (reposted comment from Alas)

alephnul

BDSM (reposted comment from Alas)

Jan 09, 2006 03:56

[This is a comment I wrote on a thread on BDSM and patriarchy on Alas, but I'm pretty pleased with it, and comments are a fragile thing, so I thought I'd repost it here as a well. I think it stands okay on its own, but here it is in context ( Read more... )

Comments 44

kiplet January 9 2006, 20:22:19 UTC

I never remember if you've read Delany's criticism or not.

alephnul January 9 2006, 20:47:18 UTC

I have.

I've read Shorter Views.

I've never read Longer Views or Times Square Red, Times Square Blue, which would probably be relevant as well.

I have read The Mad Man, which is certainly relevant.

kiplet January 10 2006, 08:46:35 UTC

It just seems to me that conceptualizing a sexuality wholly mutual that is separate from or on a different track than a sexuality conscious of power relations is, well, problematic. You don't, with the one hand, but you do, with the other, and your basic rhetorical structure.

Longer Views, not as much; Red and Blue, from a larger, societal, big-picture perspective. Mad Man I haven't myself read yet. Nor Hogg neither.

alephnul January 10 2006, 13:33:08 UTC

I don't know, I would prefer to think that it is possible. Its tricky, though. A sexuality that is not conscious of power dynamics is probably just a sexuality that pretends power dynamics don't exist, which I think is the worst of all worlds, particularly in an entrenched power dynamics rich society ( ... )

Thread 18

sinboy January 12 2006, 16:22:23 UTC

Just logging over from Amp's blog. This is "Josh Jasper". Thanks for all of the good comments.

alephnul January 13 2006, 00:08:50 UTC

Glad you like them!

furrycatherder January 12 2006, 23:18:36 UTC

And this is, uh, do I have to say who I am?

Couldn't y'all just figure it out?

alephnul January 13 2006, 00:09:24 UTC

Is it just me, or is that one seriously phallic sports car?

jakesquid January 13 2006, 04:03:22 UTC

If I have my recollections recollected rightly, that is THE penis car of all penis (sports) cars. Anyhow, I can't think of a penisier one right now.

furrycatherder January 13 2006, 04:34:46 UTC

I don't know if Corvettes are "the" penis car. I can tell you that it's 27 years old and leaks in the rain.

So ... it's pretty impressive, but even you could own one :)

Thread 17

Speaking of being productive and nuanced vinnie_tesla January 22 2006, 19:32:40 UTC

After carefully reading and thinking about your entry and the follow-up remarks, I realized I'm missing an important part:

What are you calling for? Are you saying that we kinky people should change our behavior or thinking in some particular way? Or is your point completely abstract?

A confession: The reason I'm not listing things that I think you might be suggesting is that every possibility that comes to mind is repellant to the point that it would look like trolling if I were to say it explicitly. Eliminate them all, though, and I really can't see what's left.

Re: Speaking of being productive and nuanced alephnul January 23 2006, 05:38:28 UTC

Actually, you're mostly missing that part because (particularly in this post) I was not calling for much at all. If you go over and read the Alas thread that this derives from, you might get a bit more of a sense of what I call for, but then again maybe not ( ... )

Re: Speaking of being productive and nuanced alephnul January 23 2006, 05:39:44 UTC

Just because I'm curious, I was wondering how you ran across this? Do I know you from somewhere, or through a friend of a friend?

Dealing with the eroticization of power dynamics? anonymous February 1 2006, 08:25:20 UTC

Very interesting posts; I agree with you pretty much completely, Charles. (Btw, I found your blog from Alas.)

I had a friend long ago who explained to me that it offended her that her boyfriend (a better friend of mine) explicitly refused to be possessive, and while he was perfectly happy to be faithful if that was her preference, refused to request that she be monogamous. She explained to me that she actually usually cheated on her boyfriends, but that a non-possessive boyfriend was both insulting and meant that the cheating sex wouldn’t be nearly as a hot. While she was impressively honest, I really don’t believe her desires were at all strange for this culture.I agree. My first girlfriend told me that I wasn't kissing her aggressively enough, and that when kissing a girl, I should not only avoid asking verbal permission, but I should also hold her head. I wasn't entirely comfortable with this, but I went along with it anyway because I didn't want to lose her ( ... )

Re: Dealing with the eroticization of power dynamics? alephnul February 1 2006, 12:26:51 UTC

I don't know. I agree with the basics of your analysis, and think the kissing example is a very good one, but I don't see any reason to think that there are fewer women who break their cultural D/s training than there are men who break their training. If anything, since real world D/s is much worse for women than for men, I would think that women would be a bit more likely to break their training. Admittedly, it is harder for members of any minority that has no significant group cohesion to find matching partners (that is, if you don't hang out in places where your minority position is common, then most people you are attracted to will not share your position, and women who do share your position will have exactly the same experience), so one solution is to look for group cohesion along this axis. That is to say, hang out with feminists, who, even if they may still eroticize power, are at least more likely to understand the issue.