Comments | about_faces: The frustrating, unsatisfying, intriguing mess that is "Flashpoint: Batman--Knight of Vengeance"

about_faces

The frustrating, unsatisfying, intriguing mess that is "Flashpoint: Batman--Knight of Vengeance"

Aug 13, 2011 06:45

While DC's current Flashpoint event is apparently being met with complete apathy now that it's been entirely overshadowed by the impending don't-call-it-a-reboot-reboot of DCnU, there's one thing that's caught the attention of the whole comics community. It's one thing that everyone--from the biggest news and gossip sites to fan communities to even ( Read more... )

brian azzarello, penguin, elseworlds, jim gordon, catwoman, croc, joker, geoff johns

Comments 48

bitemetechie August 13 2011, 11:26:35 UTC

Adorable.

YOU HEARD ME. I SAID IT. AND NOT JUST FROM ACROSS THE ROOM, I SAID IT WHERE EVERYONE CAN SEEEE.

yaseen101 August 13 2011, 13:57:00 UTC

I would say 'this' to the whole review.

As pointed out it could have worked had they actually built up this universes Thomas and Martha, especially before their traumatic loss. I'm thinking of writing an Elsworld's type fic with the same base idea and Selina becomes the 'Robin' to Thomas's Batman.

Also have to give a shout-out to 'Lady Gotham' and the Yasmin Liang, thanks to P:R has been appearing on my radar for a while now.

About Martha Kent; wait a minute are they reverting it back to the Silver age idea that both of Clark's parents are dead by the time he leaves Smallville?

...I'm not sure how I feel about that. Considering that dead parents + Superman sounds like such a bizarre idea that I have difficulty fully computing the idea.

about_faces August 13 2011, 20:53:12 UTC

About Martha Kent; wait a minute are they reverting it back to the Silver age idea that both of Clark's parents are dead by the time he leaves Smallville?

BECAUSE GRANT MORRISON GRANT MORRISON ALWAYS GRANT MORRISON GOLDEN/SILVER AGE EVERYTHING MORRISON.

Actually, Box came up with a pretty compelling argument as to why most superheroes now have dead parents and aren't married. But I'll leave him to explain that one, if he chooses to.

yaseen101 August 13 2011, 14:06:52 UTC

Also I was watching Powerpuff Girl's the other day and goddamn, Larry the Comic book Geek was not only a creepy as fuck villain for a kids show but a brilliant (albeit unintentional) embodiment of today's Big Two Comic Creators.

I have to find that clip where Prof. Utonium tells him what it means to be a true fan. That a true fan wouldn't want to keep all PPG memorabilia (jcluding the PPG) all to himself without sharing any but would want them to be free to do what they do best and would celebrate their achievements and victories. I mean, goddman, I first heard that quote as a kid and it has been carrying me all throughout my fandom-life and I didn't even realize till then/now.

about_faces August 13 2011, 21:02:15 UTC

There was a Larry the Comic Book Geek villain? I should check that out. Man, I'm at the point of (over)sensitivity when it comes to negative portrayals of comic fans, many of which are done by comic fans themselves. Sure, WE may know it's a stereotype with lots of truth in there, but man, I bet you that the majority of the public still thinks of that when they think of comics readers.

That said, I want to just hug that idea about true fans not wanting to keep their stuff locked up, as god knows my own comic collection doubles as a lending library. That's fantastic.

lego_joker August 26 2011, 03:01:47 UTC

That episode's stuck with me for a VERY peculiar reason: when the Mayor figures out that it's Larry (on account of Larry not being at the town roll call), he immediately follows it up with "The Comic Book Geek"!

Keep in mind, this is THE MAYOR OF TOWNSVILLE we're walking about. How distinctive(ly creepy) would a guy have to be to leave an impression in someone as scatterbrained as the mayor?

yaseen101 August 26 2011, 03:27:30 UTC

What I got from that scene as a kid was how AWESOME it was that the Mayor knew every citizen in his goddman metropolitan city.

Then later when they all stormed into Larry's room, I was thinking 'wait, is Larry the only comic book geek in the city?' and then later, 'wait, he was buying so much of the PPG crap most of the stuff became unavailable to kids? In a goddman city like that? Where does he put all the other thousands upon thousands copies of the same product anyway? '

Yes, even as a kid I was over-think way too much.

jokers_circus August 13 2011, 16:17:40 UTC

I enjoyed the series and felt that it deserved a more detailed narrative. I really want to blame DC editorial for only giving Azz three issues because I know that he is capable of crafting a well thought out tale (see LL: MoS). I hope you understand that when I saw Azz was writing this, I took a gamble. He's written stuff that I liked (Broken City, LL) and stuff I hated (Joker) and stuff that was pretty 'meh' (100 bullets, could not get passed the second trade). That being said, I did enjoy the story because there were some refreshing takes on the characters. They were taken out of their setting and at the same time, familiar enough.

I disagree that Selina!Oracle was a waste. I felt Azzarello was playing with something captivating there. I would like to believe that he was challenging certain standards of beauty by making one of the most iconic/sexy female characters in comics and putting her in a different light. Add to the fact that it was implied that Joker was responsible makes it that much more poignant.

yaseen101 August 13 2011, 16:44:23 UTC

I'm not sure if that is what Azzy was going for.

Sure it puts Selina in a completely different spot but it's pretty much guranteed that given her character that she would have been far from anything remotely similar to Oracle if she ever got crippled.

about_faces August 13 2011, 20:40:30 UTC

I have to go with Yaseen on this one, I don't really see that at all. I mean, Babs was and is still beautiful (and the Joker was responsible for that too), so putting Selina in the chair instead doesn't make that much of a statement in the switch-around. Besides, there's absolutely nothing in the text that indicates that Azzarello was doing that, unless you found something that I missed. It's possible, as Azzarello's writing can be maddeningly minimalistic, to say the least.

wo_meimei August 13 2011, 20:02:18 UTC

I really hope Harvey's daughter survived. Because his son looks fine and if his daughter died... well, isn't that implying they fridged a little girl to drive Harvey Dent insane (implied, not shown of course)?

If this is true, then we're faced with the idea that Martha Wayne, driven insane by the murder of her child, went on to become a child-murderer herself. Now, there are other details to consider, but think about that hard fact for a second. Does that work for you? Does that fit?It's the only thing in this story that I can't think of a scenario for. There are many ways that she could be thinking due to her son's death that could result in her being a child-killer ( ... )

wo_meimei August 13 2011, 20:07:58 UTC

^It's the only thing in this story that I can't think of a scenario for. There are many ways that she could be thinking after (why did I go say "DUE TO"?!) her son's death that could result in her being a child-killer. -- But, naturally, DC doesn't approach this at all, which makes this whole thing absolutely uncomfortable.

It's not entirely impossible, but because DC didn't even try... UUUUGH.

Why did I have to send this reply without double checking it for errors like this?

about_faces August 13 2011, 20:49:43 UTC

I really hope Harvey's daughter survived. Because his son looks fine and if his daughter died... well, isn't that implying they fridged a little girl to drive Harvey Dent insane (implied, not shown of course)?

Well, it's all going to be a moot point anyway, since their entire timeline is going to be wiped out of existence (unless it becomes an alternate universe in its own right that will carry on even after Flashpoint). Hey, maybe that's why none of the subplots aren't resolved! There's now actually a reason to leave threads hanging, because psssht, it doesn't matter, they're all gonna go away anyway! /eyeroll

It's the only thing in this story that I can't think of a scenario for.Oh good, so it's not just me. Well, I suppose the argument is that she will now do ANYTHING to hurt Thomas (whom she hates for... some reason), but to torture and murder children just... it just doesn't make sense. But why should it, since she's craaaaaaazy! /doubleeyeroll ( ... )

wo_meimei August 13 2011, 22:23:38 UTC

Well, it's all going to be a moot point anyway, since their entire timeline is going to be wiped out of existence (unless it becomes an alternate universe in its own right that will carry on even after Flashpoint). Hey, maybe that's why none of the subplots aren't resolved! There's now actually a reason to leave threads hanging, because psssht, it doesn't matter, they're all gonna go away anyway! /eyeroll

Not really. It's still the usage of the suffering/killing of female characters to create an effect on the male characters. Even though we don't see Harvey snap and never will, it's been suggested in his one scene that he will, and they just hurt/killed his daughter. So there's still the implication.

Oh good, so it's not just me. Well, I suppose the argument is that she will now do ANYTHING to hurt Thomas (whom she hates for... some reason), but to torture and murder children just... it just doesn't make sense. But why should it, since she's craaaaaaazy! /doubleeyerollThat didn't come out right. No, nothing in this story makes ( ... )