[Multilingual Monday] ᏞᏏᏋᎩ

[aadroma]

Demonstrating that I'm a complete glutton for punishment, I've been volunteering -- albeit in small amounts -- to the Cherokee translation of Facebook, or as it's been "Cherokized", ᏞᏏᏋᎩ, hlesigwvgi. Many of the things that need translated are simple words or phrases for the interface -- "Profile," "Update", "Friends", etc

Comments

[bluebear2]

That's actually a better concept (towards the speaker/listener) than the English upload and download since as technology continues, it's no longer a situation where there's a server with terminals or computers connected to it but computers on a par with others. If you're sending a file to another computer, is it uploading or downloading if they're both the same type of computer?

Something that bugs me is when neophytes to computers use the term "download" when they really should say "install" or "load" to refer to software installation.

I remember helping a guy with some desktop publishing of a book in the Cree language. He was just going to put "copyright" in the roman alphabet on the back. I suggested that he create a Cree word for the concept and put it in the syllabic script. He hadn't thought of that before. It excited him in a sense since it meant that it was a language of today as instead of just something from the past.

[iberianbear]

In spanish we say "subir" for upload and "bajar" for download, they are simple and they work very well. Couldnt you use the same in Cherokee?

[gullinbursti]

The cold shoulders are very likely more the product of a history of appropriation by outsiders (i.e. white people who reaaaallly realllly wannabe Real Live Indians) than any sort of desire to keep Cherokee itself private. Native culture and spirituality has been being sold to the highest bidder for a couple centuries and, since it's accompanied the destruction of those cultures and peoples, it's understandable that the survivors look on outsiders with "too much interest" with suspicion.

Heck, my mom is registered with a tribe and I still have to be careful how I present my interest in the culture and language of my ancestors, because, not having grown up on the reservation and having the complexion I do, I'm as much an outsider as anyone else.

[oddcellist]

I think to add to this, there can be a certain suspicion among some groups of outside documentation/preservation groups-the question of who, say, a field linguist is serving-their own academic career, or the speech community as a whole

[aadroma]

I think my issue is: there's been a lot of effort in reviving the language, from immersion schools to actively looking for Cherokee language teachers by offering classes to TEACH teachers the language. And, in my opinion, that operates exactly counter to some of the reactions I've gotten in seeking knowledge on the language. Does that make sense?

[oddcellist]

No, that makes sense, but I think on the other hand that the measures you name may function in terms of the in-group/out-group divide as well, by being focused at children or teachers who are Cherokee (or intimately bound to the nation, e.g. through long residence) in the first instance, even if they don't speak. I imagine the schools and teacher training are relatively localized?

So from the outsider's perspective of wanting so much to revive the language, it looks like the two impulses are working at cross-purposes, but I think whether it's fair or not, the divide may ultimately be what you're banging up against, at least until time and familiarity wins you a certain level of trust (and less aggressive gatekeeping along the lines of "well why do you want to learn the language...").

[donncha22]

If there were ever a good context for deploying the word "fraught", is has to be the linguistic boundary between tribal and non-tribal Americans. Hopi provides a good example. The Hopis continue to occupy their traditional land and villages. They were never relocated, and they never suffered disasterous population loss. They also went through an entire era in which the typical Hopi family was described as consisting of parents, grandparents, children, and an anthropologist

[philbutrin]

off-topic, here's an interesting article i just read:

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2010/01/10/the_lost_script/

[aadroma]

That ... looks like Arabic to me o_o I even see scattered "al"s all about ^o^