Hmm, yes, I agree. This episode is where I originally stopped watching the show, back when I was just a casual viewer, because I hated all the Scoobies in it and couldn't believe that we were meant to take their side. (Then I started watching again in season five because my college roommate had it on all the time, fell in love with Spike, got into fandom, and started hating Buffy in season six. But back around "Dead Man's Party" I was totally on Buffy's side.)
I get where the characters were coming from, I thought they were IC (and I say this where I generally like all the scoobies) but geeze everyone was a jerk to her. And I could never shake the feeling that I was supposed to agree with everyone being a jerk to Buffy who'd just gone through lots and lots of trauma.
I like it cos it plays into her issues, but I don't think that's the intent of the text.
For the most part, I don't think the episodes are done like that. *checks wiki* Oh of course Marti Noxon wrote it.
Ah, Marti Noxon. Is there anything she can't fuck up? (*shakes head*)
As a member of fandom, I can see how this episode gives us interesting issues to work with. As a casual viewer, though, it just made me feel depressed and annoyed, so I stopped watching.
I have no clue. Because everyone but Giles is a dick to Buffy and she makes it so we understand Buffy by having her cry and having mindfucky dreams, but we're supposed to see her as a selfish jerk who has everything bad coming to her?
Yeah if it was something I was I just watched casually, like Heroes, I probably would have stopped. Though um I believe I missed this episode when I watched when I was younger. But yeah, fannishly, I find this episode gold in thinking about how messed up Buffy is.
I kind of loved Empty Places. BUFFY BURIED ONE OF HER SLAYERS, SHE PUSHES HERSELF AWAY SO SHE DOESN'T KILL HERSELF MORE, AND DAWN'S MAJOR ABANDONMENT ISSUES. But god did I want to smack Anya when she talked about how Buffy hasn't given anything up.
Giles was replaced by Gilesbot in season seven. And after Chosen he will come back and kill Gilesbot and everything will be okay.
It's like OMG BUFFY IS A TEENAGE GIRL AND REACTED TO DAMAGE? SO SO TERRIBLE. DIAF BUFFY. I wish she had run away again and joined up Gunn and Anne in L.A.
It could have been amazing, too. Because Buffy's grief was so raw and Giles was so wonderfully subtle and the acting was on its 'A' game. BUT STUPID STUPID WRITING.
Well...since Buffy/Giles is like my favorite thing about 'Buffy' I wind up liking this episode a lot because Giles so loves Buffy here. And Buffy gets that Giles is great, which is always a plus. Also, even before you got to Giles getting her to talk about it later I was thinking about that because more GILES IS GREAT AND BUFFY/GILES TOTALLY WORKS BEST thoughts.
But you're right the rest of the gang is...a bit one note, that note is in character but there's not a lot of layered characters going on here. I pretty sure I too always felt more for Buffy (in fact...wait wasn't that the point, weren't we SUPPOSED to be in Buffy's headspace in this episode, dealing with the sometimes overblown hardships of coming back?).
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I like it cos it plays into her issues, but I don't think that's the intent of the text.
For the most part, I don't think the episodes are done like that. *checks wiki* Oh of course Marti Noxon wrote it.
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As a member of fandom, I can see how this episode gives us interesting issues to work with. As a casual viewer, though, it just made me feel depressed and annoyed, so I stopped watching.
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Yeah if it was something I was I just watched casually, like Heroes, I probably would have stopped. Though um I believe I missed this episode when I watched when I was younger. But yeah, fannishly, I find this episode gold in thinking about how messed up Buffy is.
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Giles was replaced by Gilesbot in season seven. And after Chosen he will come back and kill Gilesbot and everything will be okay.
It's like OMG BUFFY IS A TEENAGE GIRL AND REACTED TO DAMAGE? SO SO TERRIBLE. DIAF BUFFY. I wish she had run away again and joined up Gunn and Anne in L.A.
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(The comment has been removed)
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But you're right the rest of the gang is...a bit one note, that note is in character but there's not a lot of layered characters going on here. I pretty sure I too always felt more for Buffy (in fact...wait wasn't that the point, weren't we SUPPOSED to be in Buffy's headspace in this episode, dealing with the sometimes overblown hardships of coming back?).
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And yeah. We were supposed to be feeling for Buffy in this episode. But it was written like OMG BUFFY IS A SELFISH JERKFACE.
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