Shorter Kathryn Cramer

[zvi_likes_tv]

Bankrobbers drive away from their crimes in cars, so ethical people should stop driving, or else we should assume they rob banks. Original url www.kathryncramer.com/kathryn_cramer/2009/01/aliases-are-for-people-on-wanted-posters-preaching-the-evils-of-using-pseudonyms-on-the-internet.html

Also, it is totally relevant to a discussion about racism

Comments

[rydra_wong]

Even if I don't have any reason to think you left on anything but amicable terms.

Personally, I wonder if it's helpful of Cramer to keep implying that "she worked for them once" must equal "therefore of course she hates them".

I mean, it doesn't say a lot for PNH and TNH's desirability as employers, really ...

[zvi_likes_tv]

Honestly, even if Micole left on terrible terms, I don't see how that's relevant to copying and pasting the words of That Woman and her husband, and then interspersing commentary about them.

The thing about life and Internet discussion is, if Micole, in either her LJ life or while blogging under her government name, had a history of ax-grinding against That Woman or pnh, people would have, you know, brought that up. The same way that people have brought up Bear's and Monette's past racefailings over the course of RaceFail09. I fully expect, understand, and accept, that I can never say anything about That Woman ever in the future, without people saying, "Oh My God, you hate her!" And I will say, damn straight. But even if I took that post down tomorrow and started using her name all the time, people would remember. Somebody has saved or screencapped or starred in googlereader that post

Here via rydra_wong's roundup

[tacky_tramp]

Notice that she keeps accusing coffeeandink of "flaming" people. If coffeeandink were actually saying hateful, evil things about the NHs or threatening them or something, I could understand dragging in the RL stuff. But that's not happening.

I don't know. I really don't understand how grown-ass people can look at heated but civil disagreement and criticism, and walk away thinking they've seen frothing hatred and threatening personal attacks. Seems to be a trait common to KC and TNH.

Re: Here via rydra_wong's roundup

[zvi_likes_tv]

It appears that KC does not believe her action constituted outing coffeeandink, since she didn't put the name back once people undid her edits, so now she's all "libel! libel!"

I tend to think that if I'm accusing you of talking about me, and I link to your actual words, I've pretty fairly shielded myself from actual libel. (And, no, KC, she's not going to link to the part where you put her name in, since the whole point is to disconnect the two.)

[cofax7]

So, ellen_fremedon can comment on KC's blog, but not elynross? Heh.

[zvi_likes_tv]

Well, she might let Elyn Ross through. She might let Ellen Fremedon through. I think they're equally pseudonymous, although, in point of fact, I don't know that Elyn Ross or E. Lyn Ross or something isn't elynross's government name or a portion thereof. I know for a fact that Ellen Fremedon is assumed.

[cofax7]

Well, yeah, that was my point. EF's real name isn't EF, but unless you know her or know Beowulf, you wouldn't know that. And I believe ER's real name is something close to her handle. But if you just look at them with no context, Ellen Fremedon looks like a legitimate name, and elynross looks like a pseudonym--when in fact it's the reverse.

How on earth could Cramer know which is real and which isn't? It's a stupid thing to claim.

[holyschist]

I always assumed Ellen Fremondon was her real name, ha.

Actually, I'm pretty sure I've seen advice to avoid jackasses trying to out you that advocates choosing a pseudonym that looks like a legal name. It is, perhaps, somewhat effective, as long as the jackasses don't go looking for your address and phone number. But it shouldn't be required.

[agrumer]

The bit that boggled me most was the "cast of mostly pseudonymous thousands". Surely it was dozens at most?

[zvi_likes_tv]

I don't know. In That Woman's LJ, probably only dozens. If you count everyone who commented in a post that Rydra linked to as part of the ongoing linkspam, there might be a couple of hundred.

I guess the part that I don't understand is what benefit is supposed to accrue if everyone were signing things Musetta Vander or Tina Majorino or Greta Salpeter or Christopher Bridges or Tracy Marrow or Kavan Smith or Kimberly Jones or Christopher Wallace or Andy Hurley or Travis McCoy. I mean, just signing things on the Internet with one of the names in my list wouldn't turn me into one of those people, who all are either "I've seen that person before on my TV" famous, or extremely famous by a stage name or as part of a band. But a "no pseudonyms" rule wouldn't stop me from signing stuff that way. How do you prove I'm not a Kimberly Jones, even if you're pretty confident I'm not Lil' Kim?

[agrumer]

Don't ask me; I think Kathryn's a bit irrational on this point. (Though not without cause.)

Furthermore, one of the worries TNH had was that there was extensive sockpuppeting going on. I don't know if Kathryn had the same suspicion, but if so, that would mean that (if the sockpuppeting claim were true) there were fewer people involved that there seemed to be. That would argue against "thousands".

(And yeah, for those out there reading this but lacking the context, there was sockpuppeting, but on a very small scale, a total of three screen names.)

[icecreamempress]

(And yeah, for those out there reading this but lacking the context, there was sockpuppeting, but on a very small scale, a total of three screen names.)

Wasn't that sockpuppeting coming from the pro-Nielsen Hayden camp, though? (I'm thinking of ig*rs*nch*z/d*rkerbl*gist*n).

[neotoma]

All I can think is that I'm seriously reconsidering my interest in written SF, if this is the quality of the people involved in producing...

[icecreamempress]

NO NO NO NO NO NO

Please don't let these hateful asshats drive you away. They're angry old farts trying to keep the newcomers out of their club. If they drive thoughtful readers away, they will have won.

[kdorian]

But they are winning. I'm getting to the point where when I pass the SF section of the bookstore, my lip starts to curl into a sneer - and I raised myself on SF!

[icecreamempress]

But there are so many people writing right now who are really insightful about these issues! Novelists on the shelves like Tobias Buckell, Nalo Hopkinson, and Larissa Lai; in the short form, folks like Mary Soon Lee, N. K. Jemisin (who has a novel coming out any second!), Yoon Ha Lee, and Ted Chiang.

There's a revolution happening, which is why the old guard is using malice and gossip to cling to the shards of its power.

[kdorian]

Speaking as someone who is Uniquely Named, she can go DIAF.

I have every reason to believe that of the entire 6.7 billion people in the world, I am the only person with my name. Every person alive with my last name is closely related. Every person dead with my last name is a direct ancestor. Even counting the dead, I cannot find record online of even a dozen of us.

Forget not wanting current or future employers to know what I'm up to - there are members of my FAMILY that I don't want to be able to find out what I do online.

[zvi_likes_tv]

Oh, god, I am right there with you. I have a different last name than everyone in my family, and no reason to think that anyone else has that last name as well, plus an uncommon first name. Everything google pulls up when you google my legal name is me. Thank god I broke that habit young.

[kdorian]

And as someone pointed out elsewhere (I'd credit, but I forgot to bookmark!)...

How the hell does an AUTHOR come out against pseudonyms? What exactly is a pen name if not exactly that?!

OT

[ext_59120]

I totally just googled you (never have before). It was giggly to realize 'I know that person who's on the internet'. Oddly enough though, unless I"m talking to one of your parents? Zvi is who you are to me. Then again, I do have a stake in self naming.