GOOD POINTS! With both of these! Very good point with Charles not just being all "don't kill people EVER" because you're right, he did totally help with Shaw, and all the people on the ship really and truly DON'T deserve it and are indeed redeemable - realised as well what I should have thought of earlier, in that most of the people on the ships have no fucking clue what's going on. Kind of need to watch the scene again, but from their point of view - the ordinary soldier/navy guy/whatever - their orders are to stop the Russians/Americans and whatever the hell the Cuban missile Crisis was about (I'm tired, I can't remember history, shh), and then suddenly it's all levitating submarines and people in snazzy costumes running about and they have no idea what's going on. Only the people in charge really have a clue, I'm thinking. And "just following orders" in an army is really kind of the whole point - if you have every half-informed soldier questioning every decision when it does look like a matter of life and death, then...well, the whole system falls apart, doesn't it?
And VERY good point that what Charles is trying to say is "um, so this is kind of like you doing what people put you through, do you really think they deserve that?" which I kind of totally missed because I am dumb, and yes, Erik really IS becoming the monster here. (Although Charles could have found a better way to say it, I mean really.) It's the oppressed becoming the oppressor, isn't it?
OH GOD YES to the last point - if they'd just been able to go back to the mansion so Erik could have a nice cup of tea and then kind of fall apart and cry on Charles' shoulder for a while then NONE OF IT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED. I mean, he still would have had all the PTSD and related trauma and would be in a panic about not knowing how to define his life without Shaw - but he wouldn't have done anything as insanely stupid as basically BECOMING Shaw. That is no way to fill a gap in your life, Erik.
So...yes. Thank you for these points, they made me see things a lot less simplistically! :D
Re: "Just following orders": Exactly. Charles is trying to appeal to Erik's logic, not the part of his lizard brain that's going "LARGE GROUPS OF ORGANIZED PEOPLE HAVE HURT ME IN THE PAST, I MUST HURT THEM." But emotions are running high, and it's kind of a lost cause, and then Moira's shooting at him, and yeah. I just think a lot of his cues throughout the years are still taken from Charles; he still believes in Charles' vision in some form or another, but pride seems to keep him away, and he never quite reconciles what he's doing with who he was, really.
YES SO MUCH TO ALL OF THIS. It's the complete tragedy of it all, isn't it - they could work so well together, and it could have all ended so differently, but it didn't. Which means I cannot stop reading fix-it fic. I just want them to be happy together forever! Is that too much to ask???
Comics canon is pretty much a giant fix-it parade, too. They can't stay away from each other, no matter where they are. It's kinda heartbreaking, really. ♥
Very good point with Charles not just being all "don't kill people EVER" because you're right, he did totally help with Shaw, and all the people on the ship really and truly DON'T deserve it and are indeed redeemable - realised as well what I should have thought of earlier, in that most of the people on the ships have no fucking clue what's going on. Kind of need to watch the scene again, but from their point of view - the ordinary soldier/navy guy/whatever - their orders are to stop the Russians/Americans and whatever the hell the Cuban missile Crisis was about (I'm tired, I can't remember history, shh), and then suddenly it's all levitating submarines and people in snazzy costumes running about and they have no idea what's going on. Only the people in charge really have a clue, I'm thinking. And "just following orders" in an army is really kind of the whole point - if you have every half-informed soldier questioning every decision when it does look like a matter of life and death, then...well, the whole system falls apart, doesn't it?
And VERY good point that what Charles is trying to say is "um, so this is kind of like you doing what people put you through, do you really think they deserve that?" which I kind of totally missed because I am dumb, and yes, Erik really IS becoming the monster here. (Although Charles could have found a better way to say it, I mean really.) It's the oppressed becoming the oppressor, isn't it?
OH GOD YES to the last point - if they'd just been able to go back to the mansion so Erik could have a nice cup of tea and then kind of fall apart and cry on Charles' shoulder for a while then NONE OF IT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED. I mean, he still would have had all the PTSD and related trauma and would be in a panic about not knowing how to define his life without Shaw - but he wouldn't have done anything as insanely stupid as basically BECOMING Shaw. That is no way to fill a gap in your life, Erik.
So...yes. Thank you for these points, they made me see things a lot less simplistically! :D
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