Take Me Away From Me

[zeitgeisha]

You, know, Im kind of feelign the title, but at the smae times other part so f me are screamign at me that escapsim is EVIl..btu those are the parts i want to be taken away from -.- Oh wekll, my problems. i deal; i get stornger; honestly i need to do somethign with all this strength..i swear im goign to save the world some day XD And be prepared

Comments

[blackronin5]

I had this brilliant response, and then Fanny sent a link that made my browser freeze, so let me try again:
First off, the Holocaust wasn't a christian thing, but it arises in roots of Christian prejudice that go back almost (almost) to the time of Jesus. Remember, Christians were persecuted by the Jews and the Romans until Constantine had his so-called vision of the Cross and Jesus and basically made Christianity legal. At that point, Jews began to take it up the ass with more frequency. Maybe not right then and there, but think of it; that was when an established set of beliefs was established by the Council of Nicea, I believe, and all the Christians sects were made heretical except for the one that Constantine threw his support behind. The Holy Trinity and the exact divinity of Jesus and many other issues were debated over from the time of Paul up to that council (there was a council, in 313 or 331, something like that, and I believe it was at Nicea), but then there was an established church. We see the rapid increase of Christian influence, which takes over the Germanic tribes, the Slavic tribes up Russia way, goes to Ethiopia, and then to England by way of the Germans. And then, of course, Ireland, that Catholic bastion of several of my forefathers. So Christianity spreads all over, and I'm NOT sure which comes first, but the Templar, you know, an order of Crusaders who are basically unwashed 'celibate' warrior monks, and are based in the Middle East, end up establishing roots in Spain and France, and perhaps other places. They end up becoming a weird form of bankers because people leave their money and deeds with the monks on their way off to the Crusades, so the Templar become this unwashed mystical 'celibate' warring banking monk order. And then Philip One of France gets to seize all their French assets. The widespread state sanctioned persecution of Jews might begin around this time, which was sometimes in the 12 or 1300s. I know, of course, there was persecution before that, but the Jews might not've always been the primo money lenders... not sure. Just spouting out a theory or five.

Oh, and in the inquisition...
a jew who converted was called morrano, which apparently means 'pig'. So morranos were often still persecuted, and the inquisition often charged them with carrying on judaism in secret. The ways they did this were, well, if you eat meat on fridays and observe the jewish sabbath, or one, or both, or other things, you MUST be jewish! So the converted 'piggies' were often made to squeal like pigs. (Good deliverance reference, aye?)

They of course didn't know about the monks who claimed there was this race of ducks that grew on trees and were as such veggies. The church outlawed that in the 1300s.

[zeitgeisha]

okay, i know the the Christinas were perscuted by the Jews....but didnt the Romans persecute them *worse*? The romans were the ones with the military and the colloseum...and didnt he romans see them as unweieldy insane fanatic jews (which..was a pretty good description of them early days). What exactly *did* the Jews do to the Christinas, im not entirely clear on that...

Of course, the rampant spread of christianity was at the poitn opf roman spears -.- adn then later, other cultures as well...but i blame the romans -.-

As for them, i dont think they count as money lenders..they just watched peoples money. Its agianst the law in christianityn to lend money on interest. You go to hell for it, its usury. Thats why the predominant bamnkers are jews..and a few intrepid italians XDD~~ part of the reaosn we have great art is itlaisn commisioning holy works that wipe away their sins..like the arena chapel XDDD

Oh i know ^^ There are still soem christians descended from them, and they like..do the sabbath ritual and they have NO IDEA why..well, we do now, but yeah. ~sigH~

AhHAHAH..thats AWESOEM. Ducks on trees!! broilliant i say!

[blackronin5]

Well, the Romans kind of became the Christians... The Romans were just as bad, actually. Remember the Inquisition? Racks and the iron maiden? The Jews were zealous in persecuting the Christians, I thought. I mean, I kind of believe the Bible in regards to the account of Jesus' cruxificion. I don't believe the bible is exactly reliable historically on EVERYTHING (in most things it says), but sometimes it's close enough to the mark, lol. The bible is a compilation of human documents, really, and so is the torah. They aren't really the word of God... per se. They're the word of god as Jews and Christians want them to be. Besides, the Christians were a heretical radical sect of Jewry in the early days. No religion takes well to radicalism.

::nod:: You're right about usury. I forgot about that.

::nod::
Roast duck on a friday. It was a stroke of desperate meat wanting genius. It's funny, because by the time I was of age to be 'required' to not eat meat on Fridays during Lent, I was an atheist. ::sighs with relief::

[zeitgeisha]

YEs..yes the romans did...note how the Vaticna is in ROME o_O Well..yes..but the jews didnt crucify Jesus..the *romans* did; yes the Pharisees bitched at the Pontius Pilate to no end, but they themselves really didnt have much of a part in the crucifixtion..wellll, other thna being the jeering crowd >.>;; Jews basically were outlawed from commiting violence..it was how the Romans made sure they stayed in power; that qand random slaughtering >.>

Of course ^^ the bible is a text, a "sacred" one granted, but a text nonetheless ^^

hehe...my mom knew better tjhan to try and make me observe lent..at that point I was alreayd fastign on Yom Kippur and gopign to temple. She knew i didnt care >.>;; aw comone thoguh, a few days without menat wouldnt have killed you ^^;;;

[blackronin5]

meat? I'm a carnivore, darling. I can't get me enough of that meat. and rice. and hot peppers.
Ok, meat is an important part of my diet. MORE SO when I was younger. I hated veggies.
And you're right, the Jews aren't DIRECTLY responsible for the cruxificion. Of course, if the account of barabbas and jesus and the crowd being given a choice was real... then they choose who would be crucified. Of course, the romans did the actual work...
The Jewish crowd, if you believe the bible, and I kinda do, oddly enough, is partially responsible.... But that's also a ridiculous reason to persecute ANYONE. "The Jews killed Christ!" is a stupid statement. They wanted him dead and gotted him dead. Not ALL Jews wanted him dead. I believe the Romans ALSO wanted him dead. ...I THINK. And even IF if 'twas just the Pharisees, who the fuck cares??? According to everything Jesus says in the bible, the Christians should basically go to hell for persecuting the Jews.
I like the Muslim ideal of the three peoples of the book living in harmony. I hate fundamentalists soooo much. In ANY religion. Absolutism is so... ugh.

[zeitgeisha]

okay, i'll grant the barabaras story. But i mean, think about it; the *first* commandement "thou shalt have no other Gods before me", so like, sayign *you* are God, thats pretty heavy. And well jesus did a lot to piss them off..i mena, he blew memebership wide open, told them that the kosher rules were dumb, pretty much (btw, that one of the reasons less jews died durign the blakc death; they stayed away from pigs and and stuff, though it was really more that they kept their wells cleaner and more snaitary >.>) Also, had jesus said he was a prophet, he would have been more well received..the jewish traditions of prohpets, had always been to say that you came as a speaker for God..which, JEsus sort of did..but he spoke more for *himself* and claimed he was Gods so, so they all flipped out (though, I mean, we're all God's children, i bet he was beign figurative...poor guy, the crowd didnt take welll to metaphor)

Well yeah, the romans wanted him dead! he was stirrign up the Jews, and the romans needed to stay in power by keepign everyoen CALM. Agreed, in fact, many jews became christians o_O and even jews who didnt covert still saw him as a learned teacher...which he was. Well yeah. but like we know, Christianity went from beign the teacheings of jesus to beign "the teahcings of jesus as seen by the greatest epire on earth" -.-

Well i liek the Muslim ideal too...but its not exactly that great either; the other two peoples of the book werent exactly afforded equal rights eihter..they were basically treated like the Chinese in California circa 1880's. YEs. absolutism is an ugly thing..and its not even fundamentalism..fundametalism, just mena ssgetting back tot he fundamentals..its jsut people that see the fndamentals as insane things >.>

[blackronin5]

::nod::
Hence the radical heresy thingy. (Kosher rules are ridiculous, but so are the Christian dietary edicts.) He SAID he was a prophet. And remember, the only accounts we have of him claiming to be the son of god come from the bible. It's possible what he said could've been taken out of context. You never know with the bible, considering there are several gospels cut out... hey! I just read your comment about metaphor! ::nod::
Probably.
Lol, I agree completely with the "teachings of jesus as seen by the greatest empire on earth".
::nod::
True, but the Jews and Christians were treated better under Islam than the Christians treated the Jews and the Muslims. I mean, come on, the Crusaders sacked and raped and pillaged Byzantium and THEN the cities in the middle east.
heh.
Interpreting every facet of the bible LITERALLY is asking for it in my book...
And that book is full of sex.

[zeitgeisha]

Yes, this is true, but then again, it was the golden age of Islam, arounfd the 700's...it was really ass-kickign back then with all the scholars; i think that was a part of why they were less of assholes to the other peoples of the book. ..The Christians seem to manage to act like asses a lot >.> I feel sooo bad for jesus. I mean, to go through all that so the romans can screw up what you were tryign to do?>? AAGGHHH. Id be so frustrated if i werent dead >.<

YAY!!!! "THE BOOK OF BEN" can that be the new sacred text? i tire of the bible, it shoudl be regarded as we rgard the iliad and odyssey now...a great literature asnd sacred test,..but nothing to kill people over >.>

[blackronin5]

Sure, why not?
::nod:: That's what I see the bible as! A great work of literature!
And the golden age of islam was later...
Maimonides and so on?

[zeitgeisha]

oh it wasbnt the 700' and 800's?? whoops T_T yes..Maimonides was teh cool XDDD

[blackronin5]

hmmm.
I know that it became stagnant at or around the time of Leonardo...
Lepanto, the Muslims were going downhill...
No! Their expansionary period was then.

[zeitgeisha]

OKAY THEN. HUAH!!!

[blackronin5]

Oh, and, the author of the book is Jared Diamond.