seriously some of the Delena-fan reactions against Stefan/Elena have been fairly odd and I keep thinking ‘are we even watching the same show?!’
Hmm. I am bothered when people dismiss the importance of Stefan to Elena... Or in some fic where it turns out Elena REALLY loved Damon ALL ALONG!!11! lol. I mean, I think what makes D/E compelling is that it's not a conventional romance. S/E is based on the fact that Elena loves Stefan, CHOOSES Stefan. That's something D/E do not have, and yet they are this equally powerful relationship anyway? Their connection is not founded on romantic love. Which is why they ~resonate with me more.
I don't disagree with anything you're saying about the ambiguity of Damon and Elena's feelings for each other either. But that's why I find them so compelling, you know? BECAUSE of the ambiguity. You can't take anything at face value with them. They're challenging, and hard to root for. That's why I'm so invested, lol.
I'm glad my rambly analysis works for you, haha. I really feel like Elena thinks of herself as a Good Girl, and that's an interesting facet of her character I don't see much discussion about. Probably because people don't tend to talk about Elena much. :(
I mean, it’s genuinely hard to say; would Damon be a different person if he and Elena got together right now? Would he stop doing all the things he has a tendency to do?... There is absolutely no way of knowing because Damon, as much as his journey back to humanity is linked to Elena, is a character in his own right with separate thoughts and actions and it’s rather impossible to change completely because of someone.
100% word. As much as Damon would do ~anything for Elena... I actually don't believe he'd be willing to compromise in that way. He doesn't compromise for anyone. (And he is changing for himself; not for Elena.) He would NEVER just stfu and defer to her the way Stefan does in their relationship. And I LIKE that about Damon. I like the fact that he's completely self-possessed. Because Elena is also entirely self-possessed, and it's part of why they are drawn to each other. It's also why they will probably never *work* as a couple the way S/E do. Stefan is willing to be whatever the other person in the relationship NEEDS him to be; he intuits that Elena really *needs* unconditional support and security, so that's what he offers her. OTOH, Damon "can't be what other people want him to be." You either take him just the way he is, or not at all. But, you know, the fact that Damon and Elena do not fit seamlessly together is why I love them. The fact that they could be such a disaster is what keeps me coming back, lol.
That's exactly what I love about Damon/Elena too, their ambiguity (minus the declarations of love. I'm serious about this. Just, no)! I mean wtf is wrong with me? I adore that part in the second half of the first season where Damon says "I sincerely hope Elena dies". And unlike a lot of D/E theories/reactions I've seen, I personally think he was perfectly serious about it. And I loved that-- the fact that Damon hasn't been in love with Elena since 4EVA, that at the beginning he simply didn't care about her as anything more as a way to get back at Stefan, that their relationship, whatever it is, was really an organic growth. That he might never have fallen for her if Katherine hadn't betrayed him, that he might have gone back to Katherine if she'd accepted it-- it serves to make the Damon/Elena dynamic so realistic. It's not your usual 'bad boy with an easily breakable heart of 24 carat gold' getting (or, in this case, not getting) the girl, but because despite everything they're still attracted to each other, as much as they'd not be, thank you very much.
This was initially the problem I had with Stefan/Elena, although I think I've gotten quite reconciled to them; I think they're sort of adorable but, um, not very compelling (SEE WHAT I DID THERE?). I call it 'The Epic Love Syndrome', basically the idea that a couple is so perfect that any moves/attractions outside the relationship makes their connection 'less' somehow. Like Elena has never once shown that she's attracted to Damon, all of the instances can be constructed as her wanting him to 'be a better man' because she wants to protect the people she loves, while Damon’s been wearing his heart on his sleeves. And Stefan has never once been even slightly attracted to Katherine in the present time, like Damon has. Damon is extremely vulnerable around Katherine, Stefan, on the other hand, finds it ridiculously easy to resist her. And honestly, I think it's because looking at those angles would mean that S/E isn't as unshakable as the show was projecting it to be. Stefan would be so much more epic s a character if he was half as conflicted as Damon is, not as nice a person maybe, but definitely a better character.
Haha, I'm always at a loss as to what to feel about Elena, like as an individual character. I definitely prefer Caroline a lot more because of her insecurities and neurotic tendencies and chronic foot-in-mouth disease coupled with petty jealousies and an absolute intense loyalty and her 'caring way too much about everything' from people to clothes to bake sales. Because honestly, Elena is good and kind and kickass (she breaks through windows and holds back vampires with a pencil) and wants to save everybody she cares about by getting herself killed and everybody loves her (actually between her and Katherine, I think every single guy on the show might have been in love with them/slept with them lol) , I mean, it's hard to say much about her.
I actually don't believe he'd be willing to compromise in that way.
WORD. And especially since seriously, what is he getting out of being the better man anyway? It will still 'always be Stefan'. All he gets are a couple of hugs. I can see why Damon would think that a bad bargain and it made me so sad when nobody seemed particularly concerned about him dying, except Stefan (probably the most, that was lovely) and Elena (who stayed with him after he attacked her, which again, lovely!) Even Alaric seemed to forget midway D: My bb needs more friends! And he better have some hot eye-sex/angst thing with Elena next season, that is all.
NEVER SHUT UP.ever_neutralJuly 19 2011, 07:14:23 UTC
<33333
That's exactly what I love about Damon/Elena too, their ambiguity (minus the declarations of love. I'm serious about this. Just, no)! I mean wtf is wrong with me?
HA! The declarations of love don't bother me so much because it's completely one-sided... And also I still think there's a lot of ambiguity even then. I mean, in "Rose" Damon WIPES HER MIND afterwards, and then in the finale he only tells her because he's dying. And likewise, Elena only forgives him and tells him she likes him ~just the way he is because... he's dying, lol. So, it's like... they are only really honest about their feelings for each other in situations that allow plausible deniability? Which I do find very realistic... Speaking of which, IA about that "I hope Elena dies" comment, and about D/E growing organically.
I call it 'The Epic Love Syndrome', basically the idea that a couple is so perfect that any moves/attractions outside the relationship makes their connection 'less' somehow.
That is SUCH a good way of putting it. Dude. Yes. And this is my frustration with S/E too. It's based on absolutes--"I love YOU", "It's you and me, ALWAYS", "It's ALWAYS gonna be Stefan", etc. But that's the thing--no, it is not. Elena can't know that. And that's why I loved their scenes in "The Last Day" so much--because with Elena admitting that she doesn't want to be a vampire (i.e. be with Stefan forever), their relationship came CRASHING DOWN TO EARTH. It is no longer the golden standard for paranormal romance. It is FLAWED, JUST LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE. And I think the show actually did always plan that--I think the writers have been deliberately portraying Stefan and Elena as being in this falalala bubble of joy for the last two seasons, and now that bubble has burst... On that note, 100% WORD about Stefan needing to be more conflicted. He hasn't been nearly as interesting a character as he should be. Hopefully S3 comes through on that front.
My one quibble with your paragraph there is that I think Elena and Stefan have been shown to be attracted to Damon and Katherine respectively, but it's been played subtly enough that people who don't want to see it can claim that it's not there, haha. But I mean, there really is no reason for Elena to be staring at Damon's lips all the time. Um.
Haha, I'm always at a loss as to what to feel about Elena, like as an individual character.
Aww, ELENA IS MY WOMAN THOUGH. (Seriously, I am doing a character manifesto for het_reccers and everything, lol.) I did not have strong feelings about her for the longest time, but her suicidal arc in S2 turned me right around and now I'm like, I GET YOU, haha. Definitely agreed that Caroline has had the better development though. Hopefully S3 does the same for Elena. (Minus the being-turned-into-a-vampire part.)
And especially since seriously, what is he getting out of being the better man anyway? It will still 'always be Stefan'.
EXACTLY. I mean, Damon is changing, that's obvious, but it's good that it's not for Elena. And totally agreed about him needing more friends, lmao. Also about the "hot eye-sex/angst thing", NATURALLY.
DON'T ENCOURAGE ME.youcallitwinterJuly 19 2011, 08:06:23 UTC
HA! The declarations of love don't bother me so much because it's completely one-sided
Haha, I’m so stupid, I didn’t even mean those declarations; I suppose I group all his love/sort of love confessions together; I was thinking along the lines of 'I will always choose you' and 'I'm in love with a girl I can't have'. I suppose that's mainly because I'm comparing it to the first season's 'Elena, you don't have to do this if you don't want to' said with that particular look in that sort of way. I mean, he isn't even saying anything remotely romantic, but his saying it was exactly what made Stefan realize (in a wonderful bit of acting done with just a look at Elena and then Damon) that Damon was in love with Elena, even before Isobel's revelation. And there were so many scenes like that, like Stefan having earlier said "you're not capable of trust" followed by Damon's later "I'm trusting you" to Elena, or even "somewhere along the way you decided I was worth saving". I miss that so much. The Rose confession with 'I just have to say it once, you just have to hear it' was so lovely, because he isn't there with any sort of expectations, he just needs to say it once. However, I personally think that the love confession in Rose happened too soon, esp since he compelled Elena to forget it. Basically the audience knew but the characters didn't; so the show had to make callbacks to it, but it didn't make the actual relationship move forward/develop. Which is why the S2 finale confession is the deal-maker, she'll remember this and it'll work at the level of the plot, not just dialogue! And I think that Damon dying was literally the only way that scene could've happened, so I'm so glad it did :D
And that's why I loved their scenes in "The Last Day" so much
WHAT EVEN ARE YOU? MY BRAIN TWIN?! The only reason I didn't add this part was because my reply was already getting too long and I wanted to spare you a little, BUT YOU GOT IT ANYWAY. This is exactly what I said when The Last Day came out, I mean, almost in the same words even! It was the first time that StefanandElena didn't feel 'epic' to me, that really Elena's only 17 and she's smart enough to know that it's so easy to be seduced by being young forever and she doesn't want that (that moment I also fell ridiculously sorry for Caroline, because she didn't get that choice at all). It was actually the first time that they became this normal, everyday couple, madly in love, but always with this possibility of not working out. And that's okay, because sometimes things don't work out. I love that scene. And I think you're 110% right in the show's deliberate portrayal (I was just going to post about that!), and you've always been right about it! *bows down*
Hahaha, as a D/E shipper, I personally think Elena's massively attracted to Damon, as much as she doesn't want to be. But Stefan/Katherine I'm just dicey about. They have awesome scenes together, but I never really felt like Stefan was tempted in the slightest, that he had to resist even a quarter as much as Damon had to (which is why the D/K scenes will always be some of the best that the show's produced, Damon's vulnerability is an absolute delight to watch.) And I so badly wanted Stefan to react a little!
But I mean, there really is no reason for Elena to be staring at Damon's lips all the time. Um.
HAHAHA X INFINITY
NO, I LOVE ELENA. I DO. I just don't know what to say about her (your hetreccers post will help, yo!) I think she was so smart to have gotten Elijah's plan from the beginning. But you know, my favorite Elena moment will always be when she tells Stefan she wants Katherine out of the Boarding House in The House Guest. I'm not even kidding, it made me go all "OH, ELENA", because she's not concerned about their safety or evil!Katherine or whatever, she's just annoyed that her boyfriend's hot, in-love-with-him, ex is staying at his place. It was such a teenage girl reaction, it makes me awwww every time, and Elena so rarely gets to be a teenage girl D: Although now that she's no longer vampire bait (I suppose? Since the curse's been broken?) she gets a really good storyline!
Re: DON'T ENCOURAGE ME.ever_neutralJuly 19 2011, 09:18:33 UTC
I suppose I group all his love/sort of love confessions together; I was thinking along the lines of 'I will always choose you' and 'I'm in love with a girl I can't have'. I suppose that's mainly because I'm comparing it to the first season's 'Elena, you don't have to do this if you don't want to' said with that particular look in that sort of way.
Ah, I see what you mean there. Yeah... the whole ~unrequited love~ aspect is played quite heavily throughout S2, ha. Angst fodder, basically. (Though, I will quibble about "I will always choose you"--IMO, that's not a romantic overture. After the ep aired, I saw people bitching about Damon supposedly trying to ~make a move there, and I was like, LOLNO. Damon is not actually a moron. He's not gonna declare that he's happy to let Elena's best friend die, and then follow it up with a come-on, lmao. What he's doing there is letting Elena know where he stands. He's not trying to be romantic, fools. /unanticipated rant)
Which is why the S2 finale confession is the deal-maker, she'll remember this and it'll work at the level of the plot, not just dialogue! And I think that Damon dying was literally the only way that scene could've happened, so I'm so glad it did :D
Agreed!
This is exactly what I said when The Last Day came out, I mean, almost in the same words even!
Haha, WIN. *fist-bump*
But Stefan/Katherine I'm just dicey about. They have awesome scenes together, but I never really felt like Stefan was tempted in the slightest, that he had to resist even a quarter as much as Damon had to (which is why the D/K scenes will always be some of the best that the show's produced, Damon's vulnerability is an absolute delight to watch.)
Yeah... I am sort of inclined to agree re: S/K. I think Stefan is "less tempted" there because he has Elena? Sort of like, "SEE, I'VE MOVED ON. WITH SOMEONE BETTER", etc. (Irony of ironies, obvs.) He's confident in Elena's acceptance of him (something Damon does not have), ergo he has the "upper hand", and can reject Katherine with confidence. I'm banking on this to change next season; I assume Stefan and Elena will no longer be a happy couple--and once he no longer has his main source of self-worth, he'll probably find it much harder to resist Katherine. I'M HOPING. Oh, and 100% word on those D/K scenes being some of the best of the series.
It was such a teenage girl reaction, it makes me awwww every time, and Elena so rarely gets to be a teenage girl D:
YEEEESSS. And yes, the thing I want MOST out of next season is quality Elena-exploration. I want her to be totally messed up and bitchy, haha.
Re: DON'T ENCOURAGE ME.youcallitwinterJuly 20 2011, 10:08:46 UTC
IMO, that's not a romantic overture. After the ep aired, I saw people bitching about Damon supposedly trying to ~make a move there, and I was like, LOLNO.
HAHAHA. LIKE WHO THE HELL EVEN ARE THESE PEOPLE? Obviously it wasn't a come on, and especially not after what had just happened. I love the crazy of the TVD fandom (IF YOU DON'T LIKE BONNIE YOU'RE RACIST, TRUFAX). Ignore me, I just have odd reasons for whatever I think; the scene bothered me not so much in dialogue, but execution. Like I'd have loved it so much more if he'd shrugged and exaggeratedly said "I will always choose you", pretended he didn't mean it. But I. WILL. ALWAYS. CHOOSE. YOU (reminiscent of 'IT WILL ALWAYS BE STEFAN')...ah, well.
Yeah... I am sort of inclined to agree re: S/K. I think Stefan is "less tempted" there because he has Elena? Sort of like, "SEE, I'VE MOVED ON. WITH SOMEONE BETTER", etc.
I think that's a really good point and very true! Also Stefan had Lexi, he's apparently done crazy stuff, he moved on. But for Damon "after all these years it's still only Katherine" like Bree said. Still, it gives me vulnerable!messed up!Damon, what's not to love.
I want her to be totally messed up and bitchy, haha.
Re: DON'T ENCOURAGE ME.ever_neutralJuly 20 2011, 13:33:55 UTC
lol. Don't even get me started on the "if you don't like Bonnie you're SURELY a racist" business. That's real freaking PROGRESSIVE behaviour right there.
Like I'd have loved it so much more if he'd shrugged and exaggeratedly said "I will always choose you", pretended he didn't mean it. But I. WILL. ALWAYS. CHOOSE. YOU
Ahhhh, I get you now. I think Damon was (deliberately written as) WAY more uptight and ~intense~ than in S1--but that's quite true of Damon when he's overly invested, you know? Like with Katherine and "IF WE ARE TO BE TOGETHER FOREVER!1!1!" So earnest it hurts. Also I think he was feeling SUPER stressed and *powerless* in the latter half of S2, and he was ~BOTTLING EVERYTHING UP, and the ~intensity of his emotions just came out in statements like that one. It's not that he believes it'll change anything; he just has to SAY it, because it gives him--temporarily--a feeling of control. Like, "this is one thing you cannot take away from me." For Damon, the very act of compromising (the way Stefan did) is like giving up. And Damon *does not give up* when it comes to the people he's committed to. (Meanwhile, he's willing to give up on himself. *pets his suicidal self*) So, he takes the hard line, because it keeps away that feeling of helplessness. When he's all, "I WILL ALWAYS. CHOOSE. YOU" he's trying to convince himself just as much as Elena. /unanticipated psychoanalysis I WILL SHUT UP SOME TIME THIS CENTURY
Re: DON'T ENCOURAGE ME.youcallitwinterJuly 20 2011, 18:07:18 UTC
You know what, that explanation really helped me understand that scene a little better. Asthetically the scene doesn't appeal to me (actually asthetically Damon's one teardrop thing in Rose doesn't appeal to me either, it runs down too fast and looks too fake; I AM NEUROTIC OKAY), but now I can see why it maybe had to go that way.And ernest Damon always makes me 'awww' in this sad sort of way. And his powerlessness makes sense; I think TVD does that very well, create 'villains' and then break them down; first Damon was the scariest thing in town and then Katherine came along and he lost that power, and then Elijah came along and she lost hers and finally Klaus came and Elijah wasn't the worst any more. I suppose (although I MUCH prefer Elijah) Klaus is supposed to be scarier because he has no sense of honor, unlike Elijah, who practically lives by a code. ALSO, PSYCHOANALYSIS IS GOOD OKAY, I DEFINITELY WANT.
Hmm. I am bothered when people dismiss the importance of Stefan to Elena... Or in some fic where it turns out Elena REALLY loved Damon ALL ALONG!!11! lol. I mean, I think what makes D/E compelling is that it's not a conventional romance. S/E is based on the fact that Elena loves Stefan, CHOOSES Stefan. That's something D/E do not have, and yet they are this equally powerful relationship anyway? Their connection is not founded on romantic love. Which is why they ~resonate with me more.
I don't disagree with anything you're saying about the ambiguity of Damon and Elena's feelings for each other either. But that's why I find them so compelling, you know? BECAUSE of the ambiguity. You can't take anything at face value with them. They're challenging, and hard to root for. That's why I'm so invested, lol.
I'm glad my rambly analysis works for you, haha. I really feel like Elena thinks of herself as a Good Girl, and that's an interesting facet of her character I don't see much discussion about. Probably because people don't tend to talk about Elena much. :(
I mean, it’s genuinely hard to say; would Damon be a different person if he and Elena got together right now? Would he stop doing all the things he has a tendency to do?... There is absolutely no way of knowing because Damon, as much as his journey back to humanity is linked to Elena, is a character in his own right with separate thoughts and actions and it’s rather impossible to change completely because of someone.
100% word. As much as Damon would do ~anything for Elena... I actually don't believe he'd be willing to compromise in that way. He doesn't compromise for anyone. (And he is changing for himself; not for Elena.) He would NEVER just stfu and defer to her the way Stefan does in their relationship. And I LIKE that about Damon. I like the fact that he's completely self-possessed. Because Elena is also entirely self-possessed, and it's part of why they are drawn to each other. It's also why they will probably never *work* as a couple the way S/E do. Stefan is willing to be whatever the other person in the relationship NEEDS him to be; he intuits that Elena really *needs* unconditional support and security, so that's what he offers her. OTOH, Damon "can't be what other people want him to be." You either take him just the way he is, or not at all. But, you know, the fact that Damon and Elena do not fit seamlessly together is why I love them. The fact that they could be such a disaster is what keeps me coming back, lol.
oy. will i ever stop talking.
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Yeah, right.
That's exactly what I love about Damon/Elena too, their ambiguity (minus the declarations of love. I'm serious about this. Just, no)! I mean wtf is wrong with me? I adore that part in the second half of the first season where Damon says "I sincerely hope Elena dies". And unlike a lot of D/E theories/reactions I've seen, I personally think he was perfectly serious about it. And I loved that-- the fact that Damon hasn't been in love with Elena since 4EVA, that at the beginning he simply didn't care about her as anything more as a way to get back at Stefan, that their relationship, whatever it is, was really an organic growth. That he might never have fallen for her if Katherine hadn't betrayed him, that he might have gone back to Katherine if she'd accepted it-- it serves to make the Damon/Elena dynamic so realistic. It's not your usual 'bad boy with an easily breakable heart of 24 carat gold' getting (or, in this case, not getting) the girl, but because despite everything they're still attracted to each other, as much as they'd not be, thank you very much.
This was initially the problem I had with Stefan/Elena, although I think I've gotten quite reconciled to them; I think they're sort of adorable but, um, not very compelling (SEE WHAT I DID THERE?). I call it 'The Epic Love Syndrome', basically the idea that a couple is so perfect that any moves/attractions outside the relationship makes their connection 'less' somehow. Like Elena has never once shown that she's attracted to Damon, all of the instances can be constructed as her wanting him to 'be a better man' because she wants to protect the people she loves, while Damon’s been wearing his heart on his sleeves. And Stefan has never once been even slightly attracted to Katherine in the present time, like Damon has. Damon is extremely vulnerable around Katherine, Stefan, on the other hand, finds it ridiculously easy to resist her. And honestly, I think it's because looking at those angles would mean that S/E isn't as unshakable as the show was projecting it to be. Stefan would be so much more epic s a character if he was half as conflicted as Damon is, not as nice a person maybe, but definitely a better character.
Haha, I'm always at a loss as to what to feel about Elena, like as an individual character. I definitely prefer Caroline a lot more because of her insecurities and neurotic tendencies and chronic foot-in-mouth disease coupled with petty jealousies and an absolute intense loyalty and her 'caring way too much about everything' from people to clothes to bake sales. Because honestly, Elena is good and kind and kickass (she breaks through windows and holds back vampires with a pencil) and wants to save everybody she cares about by getting herself killed and everybody loves her (actually between her and Katherine, I think every single guy on the show might have been in love with them/slept with them lol) , I mean, it's hard to say much about her.
I actually don't believe he'd be willing to compromise in that way.
WORD. And especially since seriously, what is he getting out of being the better man anyway? It will still 'always be Stefan'. All he gets are a couple of hugs. I can see why Damon would think that a bad bargain and it made me so sad when nobody seemed particularly concerned about him dying, except Stefan (probably the most, that was lovely) and Elena (who stayed with him after he attacked her, which again, lovely!) Even Alaric seemed to forget midway D: My bb needs more friends! And he better have some hot eye-sex/angst thing with Elena next season, that is all.
MAKE ME SHUT UP DDDDD:
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That's exactly what I love about Damon/Elena too, their ambiguity (minus the declarations of love. I'm serious about this. Just, no)! I mean wtf is wrong with me?
HA! The declarations of love don't bother me so much because it's completely one-sided... And also I still think there's a lot of ambiguity even then. I mean, in "Rose" Damon WIPES HER MIND afterwards, and then in the finale he only tells her because he's dying. And likewise, Elena only forgives him and tells him she likes him ~just the way he is because... he's dying, lol. So, it's like... they are only really honest about their feelings for each other in situations that allow plausible deniability? Which I do find very realistic... Speaking of which, IA about that "I hope Elena dies" comment, and about D/E growing organically.
I call it 'The Epic Love Syndrome', basically the idea that a couple is so perfect that any moves/attractions outside the relationship makes their connection 'less' somehow.
That is SUCH a good way of putting it. Dude. Yes. And this is my frustration with S/E too. It's based on absolutes--"I love YOU", "It's you and me, ALWAYS", "It's ALWAYS gonna be Stefan", etc. But that's the thing--no, it is not. Elena can't know that. And that's why I loved their scenes in "The Last Day" so much--because with Elena admitting that she doesn't want to be a vampire (i.e. be with Stefan forever), their relationship came CRASHING DOWN TO EARTH. It is no longer the golden standard for paranormal romance. It is FLAWED, JUST LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE. And I think the show actually did always plan that--I think the writers have been deliberately portraying Stefan and Elena as being in this falalala bubble of joy for the last two seasons, and now that bubble has burst... On that note, 100% WORD about Stefan needing to be more conflicted. He hasn't been nearly as interesting a character as he should be. Hopefully S3 comes through on that front.
My one quibble with your paragraph there is that I think Elena and Stefan have been shown to be attracted to Damon and Katherine respectively, but it's been played subtly enough that people who don't want to see it can claim that it's not there, haha. But I mean, there really is no reason for Elena to be staring at Damon's lips all the time. Um.
Haha, I'm always at a loss as to what to feel about Elena, like as an individual character.
Aww, ELENA IS MY WOMAN THOUGH. (Seriously, I am doing a character manifesto for het_reccers and everything, lol.) I did not have strong feelings about her for the longest time, but her suicidal arc in S2 turned me right around and now I'm like, I GET YOU, haha. Definitely agreed that Caroline has had the better development though. Hopefully S3 does the same for Elena. (Minus the being-turned-into-a-vampire part.)
And especially since seriously, what is he getting out of being the better man anyway? It will still 'always be Stefan'.
EXACTLY. I mean, Damon is changing, that's obvious, but it's good that it's not for Elena. And totally agreed about him needing more friends, lmao. Also about the "hot eye-sex/angst thing", NATURALLY.
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Haha, I’m so stupid, I didn’t even mean those declarations; I suppose I group all his love/sort of love confessions together; I was thinking along the lines of 'I will always choose you' and 'I'm in love with a girl I can't have'. I suppose that's mainly because I'm comparing it to the first season's 'Elena, you don't have to do this if you don't want to' said with that particular look in that sort of way. I mean, he isn't even saying anything remotely romantic, but his saying it was exactly what made Stefan realize (in a wonderful bit of acting done with just a look at Elena and then Damon) that Damon was in love with Elena, even before Isobel's revelation. And there were so many scenes like that, like Stefan having earlier said "you're not capable of trust" followed by Damon's later "I'm trusting you" to Elena, or even "somewhere along the way you decided I was worth saving". I miss that so much. The Rose confession with 'I just have to say it once, you just have to hear it' was so lovely, because he isn't there with any sort of expectations, he just needs to say it once. However, I personally think that the love confession in Rose happened too soon, esp since he compelled Elena to forget it. Basically the audience knew but the characters didn't; so the show had to make callbacks to it, but it didn't make the actual relationship move forward/develop. Which is why the S2 finale confession is the deal-maker, she'll remember this and it'll work at the level of the plot, not just dialogue! And I think that Damon dying was literally the only way that scene could've happened, so I'm so glad it did :D
And that's why I loved their scenes in "The Last Day" so much
WHAT EVEN ARE YOU? MY BRAIN TWIN?! The only reason I didn't add this part was because my reply was already getting too long and I wanted to spare you a little, BUT YOU GOT IT ANYWAY. This is exactly what I said when The Last Day came out, I mean, almost in the same words even! It was the first time that StefanandElena didn't feel 'epic' to me, that really Elena's only 17 and she's smart enough to know that it's so easy to be seduced by being young forever and she doesn't want that (that moment I also fell ridiculously sorry for Caroline, because she didn't get that choice at all). It was actually the first time that they became this normal, everyday couple, madly in love, but always with this possibility of not working out. And that's okay, because sometimes things don't work out. I love that scene. And I think you're 110% right in the show's deliberate portrayal (I was just going to post about that!), and you've always been right about it! *bows down*
Hahaha, as a D/E shipper, I personally think Elena's massively attracted to Damon, as much as she doesn't want to be. But Stefan/Katherine I'm just dicey about. They have awesome scenes together, but I never really felt like Stefan was tempted in the slightest, that he had to resist even a quarter as much as Damon had to (which is why the D/K scenes will always be some of the best that the show's produced, Damon's vulnerability is an absolute delight to watch.) And I so badly wanted Stefan to react a little!
But I mean, there really is no reason for Elena to be staring at Damon's lips all the time. Um.
HAHAHA X INFINITY
NO, I LOVE ELENA. I DO. I just don't know what to say about her (your hetreccers post will help, yo!) I think she was so smart to have gotten Elijah's plan from the beginning. But you know, my favorite Elena moment will always be when she tells Stefan she wants Katherine out of the Boarding House in The House Guest. I'm not even kidding, it made me go all "OH, ELENA", because she's not concerned about their safety or evil!Katherine or whatever, she's just annoyed that her boyfriend's hot, in-love-with-him, ex is staying at his place. It was such a teenage girl reaction, it makes me awwww every time, and Elena so rarely gets to be a teenage girl D: Although now that she's no longer vampire bait (I suppose? Since the curse's been broken?) she gets a really good storyline!
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Ah, I see what you mean there. Yeah... the whole ~unrequited love~ aspect is played quite heavily throughout S2, ha. Angst fodder, basically. (Though, I will quibble about "I will always choose you"--IMO, that's not a romantic overture. After the ep aired, I saw people bitching about Damon supposedly trying to ~make a move there, and I was like, LOLNO. Damon is not actually a moron. He's not gonna declare that he's happy to let Elena's best friend die, and then follow it up with a come-on, lmao. What he's doing there is letting Elena know where he stands. He's not trying to be romantic, fools.
/unanticipated rant)
Which is why the S2 finale confession is the deal-maker, she'll remember this and it'll work at the level of the plot, not just dialogue! And I think that Damon dying was literally the only way that scene could've happened, so I'm so glad it did :D
Agreed!
This is exactly what I said when The Last Day came out, I mean, almost in the same words even!
Haha, WIN. *fist-bump*
But Stefan/Katherine I'm just dicey about. They have awesome scenes together, but I never really felt like Stefan was tempted in the slightest, that he had to resist even a quarter as much as Damon had to (which is why the D/K scenes will always be some of the best that the show's produced, Damon's vulnerability is an absolute delight to watch.)
Yeah... I am sort of inclined to agree re: S/K. I think Stefan is "less tempted" there because he has Elena? Sort of like, "SEE, I'VE MOVED ON. WITH SOMEONE BETTER", etc. (Irony of ironies, obvs.) He's confident in Elena's acceptance of him (something Damon does not have), ergo he has the "upper hand", and can reject Katherine with confidence. I'm banking on this to change next season; I assume Stefan and Elena will no longer be a happy couple--and once he no longer has his main source of self-worth, he'll probably find it much harder to resist Katherine. I'M HOPING. Oh, and 100% word on those D/K scenes being some of the best of the series.
It was such a teenage girl reaction, it makes me awwww every time, and Elena so rarely gets to be a teenage girl D:
YEEEESSS. And yes, the thing I want MOST out of next season is quality Elena-exploration. I want her to be totally messed up and bitchy, haha.
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HAHAHA. LIKE WHO THE HELL EVEN ARE THESE PEOPLE? Obviously it wasn't a come on, and especially not after what had just happened. I love the crazy of the TVD fandom (IF YOU DON'T LIKE BONNIE YOU'RE RACIST, TRUFAX). Ignore me, I just have odd reasons for whatever I think; the scene bothered me not so much in dialogue, but execution. Like I'd have loved it so much more if he'd shrugged and exaggeratedly said "I will always choose you", pretended he didn't mean it. But I. WILL. ALWAYS. CHOOSE. YOU (reminiscent of 'IT WILL ALWAYS BE STEFAN')...ah, well.
Yeah... I am sort of inclined to agree re: S/K. I think Stefan is "less tempted" there because he has Elena? Sort of like, "SEE, I'VE MOVED ON. WITH SOMEONE BETTER", etc.
I think that's a really good point and very true! Also Stefan had Lexi, he's apparently done crazy stuff, he moved on. But for Damon "after all these years it's still only Katherine" like Bree said. Still, it gives me vulnerable!messed up!Damon, what's not to love.
I want her to be totally messed up and bitchy, haha.
THIS FOREVER AND EVER AND EVER. /end
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Like I'd have loved it so much more if he'd shrugged and exaggeratedly said "I will always choose you", pretended he didn't mean it. But I. WILL. ALWAYS. CHOOSE. YOU
Ahhhh, I get you now. I think Damon was (deliberately written as) WAY more uptight and ~intense~ than in S1--but that's quite true of Damon when he's overly invested, you know? Like with Katherine and "IF WE ARE TO BE TOGETHER FOREVER!1!1!" So earnest it hurts. Also I think he was feeling SUPER stressed and *powerless* in the latter half of S2, and he was ~BOTTLING EVERYTHING UP, and the ~intensity of his emotions just came out in statements like that one. It's not that he believes it'll change anything; he just has to SAY it, because it gives him--temporarily--a feeling of control. Like, "this is one thing you cannot take away from me." For Damon, the very act of compromising (the way Stefan did) is like giving up. And Damon *does not give up* when it comes to the people he's committed to. (Meanwhile, he's willing to give up on himself. *pets his suicidal self*) So, he takes the hard line, because it keeps away that feeling of helplessness. When he's all, "I WILL ALWAYS. CHOOSE. YOU" he's trying to convince himself just as much as Elena.
/unanticipated psychoanalysis I WILL SHUT UP SOME TIME THIS CENTURY
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