Comments | wraithwitch: Suicide Philosophy: part II

wraithwitch

Suicide Philosophy: part II

May 11, 2009 21:41

Caveat: I am very interested in the opinions people (including myself) hold and why. I am especially interested in testing the logic/reasoning of those opinions and seeing if they hold up. That kinda thing fascinates me. As such, if any of this comes across as especially pokey or heartless, it's not supposed to, but it is (hopefully) meant to ( Read more... )

misery loves company, rant

Comments 21

annwfyn May 12 2009, 11:12:11 UTC

On a basic level, I just can't reconcile the amount of mass misery left after a suicide. Yes, one person is presumably not miserable, if you don't believe in an afterlife (in which case I imagine the suicide must feeling rather bloody stupid), but the amount of misery caused by the suicide, the length of time it lasts, the ripples it sends out are just horrible ( ... )

duana May 12 2009, 14:02:01 UTC

On 2), I think people who are making a rational plan to end their lives, rather than a desperate response to a situation they can't deal with, often take this into consideration, for instance by sending a letter alerting the police so that the person who finds them will be trained and expecting it. It's still not nice, but it's better. It's why I don't think they should raise the barriers on the Golden Gate Bridge, jumping off it is very effective, not very messy, and the people who haul your body out are used to it. If you're set on killing yourself, that's got to be about the most considerate method you can choose.

annwfyn May 12 2009, 14:05:30 UTC

I am told that the people who haul bodies out of rivers after they have jumped may theoretically be 'used to it', but actually never stop finding it upsetting. A friend of mine had a father who volunteered with the coastguard (or equivalent) up in the Firth of Forth. A lot of people jump off the Forth Road Bridge. He and his people were responsible for hauling the bodies out of the water.

They dealt with it, they made jokes to deal with the situation and made comments to the 'Queensbury Jumping Society' and told off colourn stories about the people they pulled out of the river (who apparently were nearly always naked by the time they came out of the water). However, it wasn't why they volunteered for that job, it wasn't something they liked and it never stopped being painful and unhappy-making.

So, not as utterly malevolent as just leaving your body for your family to find, but even if you kill yourself in that way, you're still making someone else's day worse, and causing them a measure of pain.

wraithwitch May 12 2009, 16:17:28 UTC

1) Getting over it ( ... )

Thread 6

satyrica May 12 2009, 11:44:30 UTC

I think my biggest disagreement is with your opinion of To The Lighthouse ;-)

wraithwitch May 12 2009, 16:19:33 UTC

*laughs* I didn't get on with her stream-of-consciousness-wibble. Although I've never reread it, so I may have a different attitude these days and think it's delightful purple prose =)

satyrica May 12 2009, 21:02:06 UTC

wibble is definitely a good word for it, wibble I like though!

lucifermourning May 12 2009, 12:48:38 UTC

addressing the points on guilt - i think your argument that this is something people should just get over is unfair ( ... )

wraithwitch May 12 2009, 16:32:11 UTC

heh, yes I suppose it is somewhat hypocritical to say 'don't tell someone to pull their socks up' and in the next breath say 'guilty? - get over it'. However...

Pain and depression are not something one 'choses' to feel they are an animal reaction to certain stimuli. Guilt however is an entirely learnt emotion. Guilt is a feeling of (often unneeded) remorse because society has taught you that you are somehow at fault and must blame yourself either because others won't blame you or don't blame you enough. Guilt can be stopped quite easily with self forgiveness - one can make a rational decision to stop feeling guilt. One cannot make a rational decision to be happy. That's why despite them both being emotional states, I think it's valid to say 'stop it' to someone feeling guilt, in a way it's generally not to someone experiencing misery.

lucifermourning May 13 2009, 12:56:28 UTC

pain and depression can often be fought against in some ways (medical, efforts to 'think happy thoughts', use activity to take the mind off it, etc ( ... )

Comment in 2 or 3 parts #1 blue_cat May 12 2009, 13:43:34 UTC

1) Unquantifiable pain ( ... )

Comment in 2 or 3 parts #2 blue_cat May 12 2009, 13:44:09 UTC

Suicide as compared to abortion: both are imperfect attempts to solve a problem that shouldn’t have happened in the first place OR does have a better solution but one that is unavailable / imperfect for some reason ( ... )