Joyous inbox how i love you
email conversations with my elder brother on the subject of my younger sister.
he emailed me on her behalf to ask favours she couldn't deal with asking off her own bat (wench).
oh how she irritates my neurons.
> Hi Em,
> Don't know where to start really.
> Katie left last night, as in moving out, huge strop, foot stamping immature gesture
*sigh*
> I wanted to talk to you/sound you out about the idea of going to a counselling session with Katie.
interesting.
> Since she has lived with me (5 months) the subject of her relationship
> with you has come up often, as has her relationship with Dad.
> She feels the need to resolve issues that she says have haunted her for
> a decade, and they are to do with the beginnings of her drug use.
ooh, surprise. personally i've been waiting for her to come and talk to me about these bloody issues since she mentioned them at christmas. i offered to talk to her about them then but she declined. i really wish she'd just hurry up, organise a sensible time and place to talk and wibble at me like i know she's been wanting to for years. (i will bet you a significant amount of money i know what all the problems and accusations are as well.)
> I can't offer you much in the way of good times going into this as I'm
> sure it'll be painful for you both.
darling, angst was soooo five years ago =P
> I suppose I just need to know if it's something you're prepared to do at all,
*grumble bitch grumble* yes, kinda, but with bad grace.
it always feels it is the world that must move for katie, and not the other way around. but that's an old complaint; besides, saying yes and doing things will be less of a pain in the arse than saying no and having all the rubbish still there. at least that's my optimistic assumption.
> and if it is then we'll talk more about the sorts of things
> that will come up and Katie's motivations for wanting to go through it.
i know what will come up, but you can give me the details if you like and we'll see if there's anything i missed.
and my guess at katie's motivation is that she feels a lot of the choices she made were because of how other people behaved towards her (especially family). she wants to take responcibility / lay blame / make peace (delete as applicable) in the hope she won't spend her life going in circles.
> It will be in Brixton, so you'll have to travel too.
meh. that is a pain in the arse.
> You may be wondering why Katie doesn't just try to talk to you about
> all of this at home.
yes. and then again, no. it's katie.
> I think she's scared of what might happen if she approaches you.
*hits head repeatedly on desk*
> She can't bear the idea of you rejecting the idea out
> of hand and therefore needs some assurance that you won't just throw it
> back in her face,
*insert world weary and sarcastic noises here*
personally i would be impressed and overjoyed if katie ever actually came and talked to me instead of talking to everyone else about me.
> think that there is a big possibility that if you don't say things that
> Katie wants to hear she will blow up and storm out
that was why actuallly my idea for when she came to talk to me was very simple. she'd wibble, i'd listen, then i'd agree and say 'yep, fine, you're right'. thought it might save a lot of hassle one way or the other.
> you may both get something constructive out of it.
i killed all my demons that were actually killable a while back. the few faint ones left are there to stay, but whatever.
> My hope is that if you agree to do this, and it goes well, you will
> both achieve a greater understanding of one another,
mm. maybe.
> and with that perhps Daddy will feel he might be able to do the
> same thing (at the moment he feels he would be walking into a setup to
> make him look bad).
a sentiment i can well understand; but then i'm used enough to playing the villain not to care.
> Like I said I hardly come bearing gifts.
*snort* just what i always wanted!!
> Very interested to hear your thoughts.
thoughts?
occasionally ranty, occasionally calm, mostly just world weary.
poor things were said and done in the past and never sorted out because one or other of the parties would deny or evade the issue.
once or twice a time ago i tried to face off with katie, to explain myself, my actions, and what i saw of her. she believed little of it and hated all of it from what i recall, so i never tried a third time.
generally i'm long past feeling the need to dig up my past and post-mortem the bodies; been there, done that, finally learnt what i could. but katie hasn't, and obviously feels the need, so yeah, whatever. if that's what it takes to stop her spinning and make her happy, then bring on gehenna...
be well
raven
xx
Hi Em,
It's great that you're up for this, and it seems you have been for quite a while =).
You have to appreciate that I've only really come to all of this quite recently so whilst it wasn't news to me, the details were.
I completely understand the sensation that the world seems to spin to Katie's tune more often than not. Believe me, the last five months have been a battle to get her to understand that it does not, among other things. I don't know how much of a difference I have made, I am also aware that coming off drugs is a deeply introspective time in anyone's life because you question your motivations for doing the drugs in the first place and that inevitably leads onto questioning aspects of one's past. So, yes, Katie is still phenomeonally self centred, and I doubt that will stop in the near future. It is with this in mind that I asked you to talk with her. It's about removing the big obstacles behind which she hides so that she can move on, and more importantly, removing her excuses to stop from moving on.
Some of your responses were interesting (Angst was sooo 5 years ago...!) because I get the sense that you, as I, have confronted some
of the difficult things from the past and have come to be at peace with them. I wish the same could be said for Katie.
What Katie wants going into this is to find someone/some people to blame for her drug misuse. Try as she might to stoically accept the
blame for every time she put the crack pipe to her lips/snorted a line of cocaine, scratch the surface and there is the same old Katie, not wanting to take responsibility for her actions, trying to palm it off on someone else.
This is the absolute crux of Katie's problem.
She is not, under any circumstances, to be able to feel that anyone but she is to blame for her drug misuse. She needs some validation though - she needs to feel that people might be able to understand what led her down this path. Blame must never be part of it though.
Obviously I wouldn't be telling you all of this unless Katie felt that some of the blame for her actions lay with you. She feels that she was the only one to spot your self harming ten years ago, and that Mum & Dad ignored it, and that you were mean and vindictive towards her
saying that you would cut yourself and tell Katie that she was to blame for that particular cut. And that this is what led up to her running away/getting into crack for the first time.
Please forgive me if I sound like I'm toeing the Katie party line - I wasn't there ten years ago and remained almost completely unaware of
what was going on. When I was made aware of some of the things that were happening, I'd talk, mainly with Zoe, and we'd usually decide that it was up to Dad to sort them out, as he had with the rest of us. It seems that this happened less and less, and the consequences are still being paid today.
Here's a thought for you:
'Katies good fortune as a child, has been her absolute downfall as an adult'
This line has swam round in my head practically every day since we begun this process.
I don't want you to go into this just to placate Katie - if you sit there saying 'Yes, no, three bags full', she'll know you're placating her and the problems won't go away. I'd like you to look at one sentence you wrote to me:
"Poor things were said and done in the past and never sorted out because one or other of the parties would deny or evade the issue."
I know you've tried in the past, and I know the results. That is why I think it must come down to mediation - Katie has a tendency to throw up a wall of bluff and bluster/storm out when she doesn't hear what she wants, and that must not be allowed to happen if she is ever to get past this. I'm sure that is what will happen if you two get together at home, hence the need for someone else to be present to stop her from blowing up (Someone from outside the family). Part of me suspects that she is actually quite happy to have this problem to moan about and is scared of what life will be like without it.
I want Katie to understand more about you from this aswell - she needs to begin to understand what it is like to recognise that there are
other people on this planet other than her.
It shouldn't be about confrontation, it should be about understanding (Excuse the counsellor-babble).
All help much appreciated!
Lots of love,
Bastie
xxx
Personally I had my fill of counsellors a long time ago; I knew many solid reasons for my depression and behaviour and did happily conclude that although it was the cause of the world being a bastard, my reaction to it all was what was tearing me appart. Having someone pointedly ask me questions I already knew the answers to was a grand waste of time.
Still, although Katie is obviously capable of being as greatly introspective as any angst-ridden and put upon 16 year old (I hasten to add, she's 22) she doesn't seem capable of coming to any useful conclusions unless hit with the head-scanner stick. *sigh*
Meh. Oh I'll go to the sessons and try to be as useful as I can, but I really don't care for it. I am 'fixed' and happy at the moment as far as it ever goes... And I have found there is nothing like digging up the past for slaughtering all your good moods. I have no wish to martyr myself to my sister's cause - I just really hope my brain chemistry bears that in mind.
======
I had a good weekend. DA was interesting; not all of my neurons approved of Tremere PCs at court, but that was because some of them are lazy bastards who want a quiet and easy life without the interference of multiple path / frenzy checks etc =P But it was fun I think, and is set to get still more 'interesting' in the future. also I had a post-pre-game scene which stung like a bitch but ultimately ended really well - there were no exploaded dead or turn-coat gargoyles at all! YEY! *Seraphim neurons do a little mid air sumersault dance*
Ben's FF game was amusing. I had a magic sword and magically inhanced strength of silly proportions. Two were-creature assassins of doom were not going to stop me! And lo did I verily smite the plot until it was dead as a very dead thing. heeeheehee.
he emailed me on her behalf to ask favours she couldn't deal with asking off her own bat (wench).
oh how she irritates my neurons.
> Hi Em,
> Don't know where to start really.
> Katie left last night, as in moving out, huge strop, foot stamping immature gesture
*sigh*
> I wanted to talk to you/sound you out about the idea of going to a counselling session with Katie.
interesting.
> Since she has lived with me (5 months) the subject of her relationship
> with you has come up often, as has her relationship with Dad.
> She feels the need to resolve issues that she says have haunted her for
> a decade, and they are to do with the beginnings of her drug use.
ooh, surprise. personally i've been waiting for her to come and talk to me about these bloody issues since she mentioned them at christmas. i offered to talk to her about them then but she declined. i really wish she'd just hurry up, organise a sensible time and place to talk and wibble at me like i know she's been wanting to for years. (i will bet you a significant amount of money i know what all the problems and accusations are as well.)
> I can't offer you much in the way of good times going into this as I'm
> sure it'll be painful for you both.
darling, angst was soooo five years ago =P
> I suppose I just need to know if it's something you're prepared to do at all,
*grumble bitch grumble* yes, kinda, but with bad grace.
it always feels it is the world that must move for katie, and not the other way around. but that's an old complaint; besides, saying yes and doing things will be less of a pain in the arse than saying no and having all the rubbish still there. at least that's my optimistic assumption.
> and if it is then we'll talk more about the sorts of things
> that will come up and Katie's motivations for wanting to go through it.
i know what will come up, but you can give me the details if you like and we'll see if there's anything i missed.
and my guess at katie's motivation is that she feels a lot of the choices she made were because of how other people behaved towards her (especially family). she wants to take responcibility / lay blame / make peace (delete as applicable) in the hope she won't spend her life going in circles.
> It will be in Brixton, so you'll have to travel too.
meh. that is a pain in the arse.
> You may be wondering why Katie doesn't just try to talk to you about
> all of this at home.
yes. and then again, no. it's katie.
> I think she's scared of what might happen if she approaches you.
*hits head repeatedly on desk*
> She can't bear the idea of you rejecting the idea out
> of hand and therefore needs some assurance that you won't just throw it
> back in her face,
*insert world weary and sarcastic noises here*
personally i would be impressed and overjoyed if katie ever actually came and talked to me instead of talking to everyone else about me.
> think that there is a big possibility that if you don't say things that
> Katie wants to hear she will blow up and storm out
that was why actuallly my idea for when she came to talk to me was very simple. she'd wibble, i'd listen, then i'd agree and say 'yep, fine, you're right'. thought it might save a lot of hassle one way or the other.
> you may both get something constructive out of it.
i killed all my demons that were actually killable a while back. the few faint ones left are there to stay, but whatever.
> My hope is that if you agree to do this, and it goes well, you will
> both achieve a greater understanding of one another,
mm. maybe.
> and with that perhps Daddy will feel he might be able to do the
> same thing (at the moment he feels he would be walking into a setup to
> make him look bad).
a sentiment i can well understand; but then i'm used enough to playing the villain not to care.
> Like I said I hardly come bearing gifts.
*snort* just what i always wanted!!
> Very interested to hear your thoughts.
thoughts?
occasionally ranty, occasionally calm, mostly just world weary.
poor things were said and done in the past and never sorted out because one or other of the parties would deny or evade the issue.
once or twice a time ago i tried to face off with katie, to explain myself, my actions, and what i saw of her. she believed little of it and hated all of it from what i recall, so i never tried a third time.
generally i'm long past feeling the need to dig up my past and post-mortem the bodies; been there, done that, finally learnt what i could. but katie hasn't, and obviously feels the need, so yeah, whatever. if that's what it takes to stop her spinning and make her happy, then bring on gehenna...
be well
raven
xx
Hi Em,
It's great that you're up for this, and it seems you have been for quite a while =).
You have to appreciate that I've only really come to all of this quite recently so whilst it wasn't news to me, the details were.
I completely understand the sensation that the world seems to spin to Katie's tune more often than not. Believe me, the last five months have been a battle to get her to understand that it does not, among other things. I don't know how much of a difference I have made, I am also aware that coming off drugs is a deeply introspective time in anyone's life because you question your motivations for doing the drugs in the first place and that inevitably leads onto questioning aspects of one's past. So, yes, Katie is still phenomeonally self centred, and I doubt that will stop in the near future. It is with this in mind that I asked you to talk with her. It's about removing the big obstacles behind which she hides so that she can move on, and more importantly, removing her excuses to stop from moving on.
Some of your responses were interesting (Angst was sooo 5 years ago...!) because I get the sense that you, as I, have confronted some
of the difficult things from the past and have come to be at peace with them. I wish the same could be said for Katie.
What Katie wants going into this is to find someone/some people to blame for her drug misuse. Try as she might to stoically accept the
blame for every time she put the crack pipe to her lips/snorted a line of cocaine, scratch the surface and there is the same old Katie, not wanting to take responsibility for her actions, trying to palm it off on someone else.
This is the absolute crux of Katie's problem.
She is not, under any circumstances, to be able to feel that anyone but she is to blame for her drug misuse. She needs some validation though - she needs to feel that people might be able to understand what led her down this path. Blame must never be part of it though.
Obviously I wouldn't be telling you all of this unless Katie felt that some of the blame for her actions lay with you. She feels that she was the only one to spot your self harming ten years ago, and that Mum & Dad ignored it, and that you were mean and vindictive towards her
saying that you would cut yourself and tell Katie that she was to blame for that particular cut. And that this is what led up to her running away/getting into crack for the first time.
Please forgive me if I sound like I'm toeing the Katie party line - I wasn't there ten years ago and remained almost completely unaware of
what was going on. When I was made aware of some of the things that were happening, I'd talk, mainly with Zoe, and we'd usually decide that it was up to Dad to sort them out, as he had with the rest of us. It seems that this happened less and less, and the consequences are still being paid today.
Here's a thought for you:
'Katies good fortune as a child, has been her absolute downfall as an adult'
This line has swam round in my head practically every day since we begun this process.
I don't want you to go into this just to placate Katie - if you sit there saying 'Yes, no, three bags full', she'll know you're placating her and the problems won't go away. I'd like you to look at one sentence you wrote to me:
"Poor things were said and done in the past and never sorted out because one or other of the parties would deny or evade the issue."
I know you've tried in the past, and I know the results. That is why I think it must come down to mediation - Katie has a tendency to throw up a wall of bluff and bluster/storm out when she doesn't hear what she wants, and that must not be allowed to happen if she is ever to get past this. I'm sure that is what will happen if you two get together at home, hence the need for someone else to be present to stop her from blowing up (Someone from outside the family). Part of me suspects that she is actually quite happy to have this problem to moan about and is scared of what life will be like without it.
I want Katie to understand more about you from this aswell - she needs to begin to understand what it is like to recognise that there are
other people on this planet other than her.
It shouldn't be about confrontation, it should be about understanding (Excuse the counsellor-babble).
All help much appreciated!
Lots of love,
Bastie
xxx
Personally I had my fill of counsellors a long time ago; I knew many solid reasons for my depression and behaviour and did happily conclude that although it was the cause of the world being a bastard, my reaction to it all was what was tearing me appart. Having someone pointedly ask me questions I already knew the answers to was a grand waste of time.
Still, although Katie is obviously capable of being as greatly introspective as any angst-ridden and put upon 16 year old (I hasten to add, she's 22) she doesn't seem capable of coming to any useful conclusions unless hit with the head-scanner stick. *sigh*
Meh. Oh I'll go to the sessons and try to be as useful as I can, but I really don't care for it. I am 'fixed' and happy at the moment as far as it ever goes... And I have found there is nothing like digging up the past for slaughtering all your good moods. I have no wish to martyr myself to my sister's cause - I just really hope my brain chemistry bears that in mind.
======
I had a good weekend. DA was interesting; not all of my neurons approved of Tremere PCs at court, but that was because some of them are lazy bastards who want a quiet and easy life without the interference of multiple path / frenzy checks etc =P But it was fun I think, and is set to get still more 'interesting' in the future. also I had a post-pre-game scene which stung like a bitch but ultimately ended really well - there were no exploaded dead or turn-coat gargoyles at all! YEY! *Seraphim neurons do a little mid air sumersault dance*
Ben's FF game was amusing. I had a magic sword and magically inhanced strength of silly proportions. Two were-creature assassins of doom were not going to stop me! And lo did I verily smite the plot until it was dead as a very dead thing. heeeheehee.