Hi everyone, thanks for all the feedback on the last couple of raiding posts. It looks like we have a decent idea of where everyone stands and we're going to start moving ahead with things now
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Before I begin, I want to apologize if this comes across in any way argumentative, confrontational, or otherwise negative. That is not how it is intended, and I tried my best to cull anything of that sort from the writing, but I can’t anticipate how everyone will read this.
When we began Firelands raiding, I was approved on Florimel (my mage) for raiding. Seven Firelands raids have been scheduled since we started. I didn’t sign up for two of them, so that is five that I signed up for. Out of those five raids I was never officially seated. I was brought in if someone didn’t show up, but I was never actually seated. When I asked the officers, I was told it was due to many factors, one of which was my DPS. I love DotA, but to me, this was the epitome of unfair. I had been approved, and here I was being told I wasn’t “good enough”.
On that note, I think it is really important to note that fair is a completely relative thing. One person may think that in order for a raid to be fair, there needs to be no gear competition. Others may think it is to do with people being rotated in equally. Still others may think that whatever the higher ups deem is fair, is fair. The list goes on and on. You could ask everyone in the guild and the answers you get would likely be pretty varied.
Personally, I go with what I learned as the definition of fair. To be fair is to be impartial.
When it comes to impartiality, that isn’t something we can promise our raiders with any sort of certainty.
What makes me say this? Obviously, whoever is leading the raid gets a guaranteed spot. Things like having fewer tanks and healers means that they will sometimes get to go more than the DPS. Certain classes having better interrupts can play a part in seating. And the almighty DPS numbers can play a part in seating.
That said, I don’t want anyone in DotA to be at the mercy of any of the officer’s whims when it comes to seating raids because they want the discretion to handpick their “ideal“ raiding team.
This whole guild is a team. We have a lot of people who currently raid or want to raid in the future. If being fair is something that is truly important to the raid leaders/officers, I think we need to avoid the personal opinions of fair and try to stick to the nitty-gritty of it as much as possible.
With Firelands, this shouldn’t be too hard. Having raided to Ragnaros, I can say I know the mechanics of the fights pretty well on the scope that DotA will be attempting them. There is nothing overly gimmicky in Firelands to lend itself to impartiality. Beth’tilac needs one or two people with decent AoE capabilities. Alysrazor needs 4 people with reliable interrupts (Pre-nerf. It is considerably easier post-nerf). I can’t think of anything else off the top of my head that requires anything that couldn’t be found in a normal raid makeup.
To me, fair raid seating means that within the guild everyone is treated with as much impartiality as is possible. Raid spots are shared equally. And an approved player doesn't have to fear being told mid-tier they aren't "good enough" to be raiding.
Again, I love DotA. I want to see DotA succeed in progression. What I don’t want is to see the core concepts of fair abandoned.
I have mixed feelings about this. But deep down i know it to be true. The only reason i have mixed feelings is because 1. I know its right and really feel it needed to be said, and every week it does seem as though the same people are seated more so than others. But 2. I've always been in guilds that did this, and the majority of the time putting progression above peoples feelings yielded great(in the sense of making progress) results. But because a lot of the raiders are very unique in there own way, in the way that people with good dps have flaws as well as the ones without. In the past it was either, your perfect or you need to work on stuff. But not everyone is like that, and i am really grateful that we are not. In which i think I'm going to have to agree with you completely on your post, but i cannot propose a way in which this can be implemented right off the bat at the moment.
When we began Firelands raiding, I was approved on Florimel (my mage) for raiding. Seven Firelands raids have been scheduled since we started. I didn’t sign up for two of them, so that is five that I signed up for. Out of those five raids I was never officially seated. I was brought in if someone didn’t show up, but I was never actually seated. When I asked the officers, I was told it was due to many factors, one of which was my DPS. I love DotA, but to me, this was the epitome of unfair. I had been approved, and here I was being told I wasn’t “good enough”.
On that note, I think it is really important to note that fair is a completely relative thing. One person may think that in order for a raid to be fair, there needs to be no gear competition. Others may think it is to do with people being rotated in equally. Still others may think that whatever the higher ups deem is fair, is fair. The list goes on and on. You could ask everyone in the guild and the answers you get would likely be pretty varied.
Personally, I go with what I learned as the definition of fair. To be fair is to be impartial.
When it comes to impartiality, that isn’t something we can promise our raiders with any sort of certainty.
What makes me say this? Obviously, whoever is leading the raid gets a guaranteed spot. Things like having fewer tanks and healers means that they will sometimes get to go more than the DPS. Certain classes having better interrupts can play a part in seating. And the almighty DPS numbers can play a part in seating.
That said, I don’t want anyone in DotA to be at the mercy of any of the officer’s whims when it comes to seating raids because they want the discretion to handpick their “ideal“ raiding team.
This whole guild is a team. We have a lot of people who currently raid or want to raid in the future. If being fair is something that is truly important to the raid leaders/officers, I think we need to avoid the personal opinions of fair and try to stick to the nitty-gritty of it as much as possible.
With Firelands, this shouldn’t be too hard. Having raided to Ragnaros, I can say I know the mechanics of the fights pretty well on the scope that DotA will be attempting them. There is nothing overly gimmicky in Firelands to lend itself to impartiality. Beth’tilac needs one or two people with decent AoE capabilities. Alysrazor needs 4 people with reliable interrupts (Pre-nerf. It is considerably easier post-nerf). I can’t think of anything else off the top of my head that requires anything that couldn’t be found in a normal raid makeup.
To me, fair raid seating means that within the guild everyone is treated with as much impartiality as is possible. Raid spots are shared equally. And an approved player doesn't have to fear being told mid-tier they aren't "good enough" to be raiding.
Again, I love DotA. I want to see DotA succeed in progression. What I don’t want is to see the core concepts of fair abandoned.
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