Social Theory and Ideologies

[wire_mother]

lately, i've been having a discussion with someone online about social theory, millenialism, and a variety of other topics. recently, he equated (perhaps sloppily) democracy with bureaucracy, and my response was something that i wanted to put here for comment:

Comments

[erotocism]

I really love to see stuff like this posted on LJ. I get so damn bored of seeing memes and such, it makes me sick. I definately understand and agree with what you've mentioned here, it makes me curious to see and hear what else you have in your brain. :D

[thewronghands]

I really love to see stuff like this posted on LJ. I get so damn bored of seeing memes and such, it makes me sick.Hear, hear. While I admittedly fall prey to the occasional meme, it's (I hope) drowned in comparison to actual content. Hurrah for informed scholarly intellectual posts

[wire_mother]

"human nature, while social, is also profoundly self-interested, and that this plays a major role in influencing social interactions"

this option. that is one of those things that probably would have been caught in a re-write. also, this is an excellent formulation of the idea. would you mind if i appropriate it should i ever re-write this article?

northern European ideas of Justice include some fairly radical concepts that we take for granted. the idea, for instance, that social punishments exist for more reason than to enforce the rights of the powerful or to maintain social order - the idea that social punishment can serve to rectify social imbalance. so, yes, weregild is one example, but the basic theory behind many northern European legal systems is fairly unique in general. it seems as though much of that theory is being slowly lost in a trend toward a philosophy more resembling Chinese Legalism, but it is still held by many to be nearly axiomatic

[thewronghands]

Certainly, permission to appropriate my phrasing. I'm flattered. [grin]

I agree that incredibly reductionist ideologies often fail to correctly guide one's encounters with a complex world. You dust me in economics, though -- that's one of my personal weaknesses, and something I've been working on. (Breadwinner with loose grasp on money bad. Fiscally responsible breadwinner good.)

[rialian]

===Jumped over here through thewronghands posting...

===Have you looked at What Would Jefferson Do? : A Return to Democracy? It connects well to all this...

[wire_mother]

i have not read it, but i will look for a copy to read. the descriptions on amazon sound promising, and a foaf recommendation is always worth taking into account. :) heh, and i see that, in true small-world fashion, you also know Kai.

what do you think of the idea presented - basically, that a dynamic of Progressive and Conservative ideologies is better than any competing alternative, most of which can best be described as a breakdown of civilization?

[rialian]

===I think there is a bit of the truth to it, but I am not sure that refering to it as "conservative" is quite the right angle. I would say that it is far more the essence of being a "traditionalist" rather than being "conservative".

===I think all properly functioning cultures have an experimental, exploring side and a a refining, cautious side. (Case in point, I do not think that we right now have a "conservative" side right now..."both" main groups are rather progressive in a direction that does not speak of refinement and actual tradition. They are both far more interpretive than "conserving", if we are looking at actual cultural practice..)

===(And yes, I realize I may be nit-picking terminology here...I tend to have a bit of a hyperlinked association with words.)

[wire_mother]

ah, i mean to use "Conservative" in the actual sense, what you call "traditionalist", rather than the current, temporary usage in this particular location