Out of line? Maybe...

[getsettojet]

I'm curious, not on what the 'vegan' response is, but on each individuals perception of the acceptability of abortion as I feel this and veganism would be closely intertwined? I probably won't respond to any responses, as debates like these tend to get heated, I'm just curious what the majority of vegans here believe in relation to this matter

Comments

[quatre_vingts]

Most people will argue that abortion is not really a vegan issue. A fetus is not a sentient, independently living, breathing being. Even if it's aborted, it will never go through the prolonged agony, misery, torture, and suffering that any factory-farmed animal goes through.

One person's choice to abort or not abort is as much everyone else's business as one person's choice to eat meat or not eat meat.

I dunno, it's hard for me to explain in terms that people will generally accept--"I hate children, but I love cows" goes over like a lead balloon. A really annoying anti-choice "friend" of mine once pounced on me with "So you won't eat a chicken, BUT YOU'D KILL YOUR OWN BABY?" Well gee, go ahead and wank your emotion all over me about abortion, which I strive to be well-versed on all sides of, while you are at the same time incredibly rude and dismissive and prefer to remain ignorant of the reasons behind veganism. It's my body and my decision to put into or take out anything I damn well please. I might not agree with your decision to eat meat or to perpetuate your genes and idiocy by wanting to have 2358729538 kids, but in the end it's none of my business and has nothing to do with me, so I have no right to judge you for it or argue with you about it. So, you know, extend me the same fucking courtesy.

[getsettojet]

i'm confused if you are angry at me or your friend, if its me i'm even more curious as to what I possibly could have done to upset you...

[quatre_vingts]

Haha, oh man, I'm sorry. I didn't realize it could come across like that. No,
"you" is my "friend" who jumped on me about the chicken thing, not you personally; when I relate stories and get to explaining how I felt towards the other party, I use "you" a lot. Got a little carried away with my wank. :P

[getsettojet]

haha, its quite alright. It's so hard to communicate on the internet sometimes.

;)

[weeona]

Pretty sure she's mad at her "friend" and that was a "talking out loud, venting, directed at no one here" type response. I wouldn't worry. ;)

As for me, I'm pro-choice. I (*think* I) wouldn't do it after a certain point due to the sentience issue but I'm totally okay with it up until then. Even after the point where my "well, the fetus can feel pain... and I don't eat animals because they feel pain and I respect that and refuse to let them be expendible commodities... mehhhhhh" waverings start kicking in I still respect others rights to their own decisions. So, pro-choice.

Leona

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[foreverquatre]

Isn't that basically the information you find from those adamantly anti-abortion sites? Sure a fetus may be able to move around some, but to say it's 'kicking and screaming silently'? That just sounds like anti-abortion rhetoric trying to make abortion out to be the same as killing a child. And a lot of human cells and tissue are cut up while still alive. It doesn't mean that they can feel pain or understand what's going on the way we can or the way an animal could. A fetus isn't going to be able to respond to its environment or stimuli until it's close to actually being a baby.

Re: ...

[getsettojet]

I believe he is referring mainly to partial birth or late term abortions. I'm not going to ad this to the debate at this period, but a baby that is say, 6.5 months old would be able to survive if it was born, so does that change the perspective on the abortion?
Also, be careful in saying the baby won't be able to feel pain, unless you have a scientific source that points to the period in time when a baby begins to feel pain.

Re: ...

[foreverquatre]

I didn't say that babies don't feel pain. I meant an embryo or fetus that is still developing.

About 90% of abortions are in the first trimester and are easily extracated from a uterus and basically resemble a blood clot. Then about 11% of abortions are in the second trimester and about 1% are performed later than that. So only about 12% of abortions actually involve touching the fetus. And in the second trimester it is certainly debatable as to whether or not the fetus is sentient.

Since abortion is supposed to prevent a child from forming, it is debatable as to whether or not it is ethical to terminate a viable fetus. But then it's also debatable as to whether or not it's really viable as pre-mature babies need to be put on life support systems. At 6-7 months the fetus doesn'ts stand a good chance of living outside the womb.

Quite a few late term abortions are performed on teenagers because they did not recognize the first signs of pregnancy or they were in denial about it or just waited as long as possible. And menopausal women have late term abortions because they did not realize they were pregnant. It's certainly not fair to deny a woman a second or third trimester abortion. But of course it's always best if it is done as early as possible for multiple reasons.