So, someone else mentioned that Elena actually didn't lose control. And it's interesting to examine her language in how she expresses her regret. Not that she did something wrong, but that she should've been doing it with Stefan. So her solution wasn't really to not drink people, but that she did it without her boyfriend. So I think her feeling shame is so much about her feeling like she's ~with Damon
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So her solution wasn't really to not drink people, but that she did it without her boyfriend. So I think her feeling shame is so much about her feeling like she's ~with Damon.
Oh, I like this interpretation!
Ugh, it's all a tangle. Basically, I can't decide if this is brilliant ambiguous storytelling or an idiotic attempt to appease both D/E and S/E shippers for as long as possible.
Guys, this episode was just so freaking confusing! I could probably offer a reading of everything that happened, but the framing was so bizarre and off that I legit can't tell if what I'm reading is in any way correct. It feels like they're telling two mutually exclusive stories. Which story is correct?
I'm glad you posted, because this is exactly what has been tripping me up when I try to figure out if I even liked it. I keep squinting at it, but it is not helping.
Really annoyed at everyone for freaking out so much, when as far as I can tell Elena did . . . nothing wrong? I usually like Bonnie, but in this episode, D and E spent the entire episode talking about how they were coming here so she could learn to feed without hurting anyone, and then they did that, but then all of a sudden it was a horrible thing that everyone except Damon must *judge* and just urgh.
Yes, urgh. That is how I feel. I am tired of Stefan's grand speeches about things. Just so tired.
Right, but I also totally understand Bonnie's reaction, especially considering how hard Bonnie herself finds it to be selfish. Bonnie's definition of selflessness can run laps around Elena's. So I'm sure Bonnie expected Elena to learn how to feed without hurting anyone (or well, drinking someone's blood constitutes hurting, but not hurting anyone irreparably), but seeing Elena ~enjoy it so much was disturbing.
Yeah, it's the show setting Bonnie up as a "judge" by only giving her a part of the story. She reacted to what she saw, and what she saw was pretty scary. How would she know there were no victims? Elena was covered in blood!
Oooh, it's so good to hear from you! I hope you're okay?
Well, It's not Bonnie's fault. She really walked in on them in a very unfortunate moment. I would've freaked out worse if I were here tbh. It was all out of context for her.
I am tired of Stefan's grand speeches about things.
Stefan is starting to pursue a white picket fence fantasy. Dear Lord.
I agree with comments above. I don't see what exactly Elena did wrong?!? I read Bonnie's reaction and Elena's later as combination of everyone expecting her to be freaking vampire virgin mary in a sense and the fact that it was obvious that Elena feels more connected to Damon than to her boyfriend. Elena is afraid of everything Damon represents to her mindset and life(at least the way I see it). I still hate on the show for making me(and Elena) feel like it's wrong to have fun and be carefree
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Elena is afraid of everything Damon represents to her mindset and life
Oh, agreed with that, definitely :). Huge overidentification issues. She wouldn't be rejecting him so consistently if it wasn't for that. See, I'm not really that confused when it comes to the general storyline, it's just this single episode that confused the hell out of me. Things were a bit off.
I think it's a deeper problem with Stefan. For him, it's so obvious that being a vampire is hell that it doesn't even occur to him that there might be worse things. Being a vampire is literally THE WORST in his mind. So he projects his mindset on Elena. Tbh, Damon does just the same very often. The difference is that Elena and Damon have a lot in common, so Damon's projections usually happen to be true.
I definitely see the deconstruction of Stefan the Hero generally in s4, but in this particular episode, I felt the framing wasn't 100% clear about it, so I'm freaking out a bit.
¸I commented on arabian's review of the episode that I felt weird watching this episode because I felt the way show was staging things for me(the viewer) to be feeling and thinking one thing but I felt totally the opposite. I scrunched up what little I know of directing and talked to my friend who is an tv editor actually and he said it could be a directing problem, like director misread the text and his directions reflected his interpretation but more obvious interpretation still shone through for more careful audience. It felt to me like the staging prompted Stefan as the romantic hero that would do anything for his lady love but I felt him as a self-centered idiot and on the other hand the staging prompted Damon as frat boy douche that doesn't care for anything or anyone but I felt him as overeager man that wanted to share a part of himself with his current best friend and girl he loves (same person). I don't know if it's just me that felt this.
I'm inclined to agree that this is a directing problem. I actually just checked who directed this episode, and it was the same guy who directed 3x20. THAT EXPLAINS A LOT. I am far more secure in my reading right now ;).
WHY DOES DAMON HAVE TO SHUT HIS EYES LIKE A 13 YEAR OLD GIRL IS THE REAL QUESTION.
Yeah I mentioned in my post that I actually don't see the big deal about taking blood in the first place, so Elena's troubles are going straight over my head ngl. Stefan remains Stefan. I can't even go into that. He just remains Stefan. ~have mah babies and die in ma arms~
BECAUSE HE IS A 13 YEAR OLD GIRL, DON'T YOU KNOW THAT?
~have mah babies and die in ma arms~
Yeah, that. All things aside: dude, she's 18, and you just assume she'll love you until her dying day? SHE IS EIGHTEEN! You're her high school boyfriend! Have a little realism and at least wait a few years before you take her for granted like that!
LOL, maybe I'm enjoying everything because I'm looking for no coherency or logic and it's just pretty people and blood and the occasional explosions and things I'm interested in. But, I mean, Elena was pretty judgmental about this same thing as a human even after all her supernatural interaction? In that episode where Damon's trying to get Stefan to learn some control and throws the bleeding girl him (which is fairly late in the series), Elena sees them and is mostly shocked and apparently disgusted, even though she's known for the longest time that vampires feed that way. She was absolutely adamant on Stefan drinking out of a blood bag multiple times, even when Damon tried to tell her that the complete abstinence was the reason for his 'ripper' status. If human!Elena had come across the same scene as Bonnie did, with...anyone, even Damon, she's have been equally, if not more, shocked/horrified. I think it's the visceral 'seeing' and the general 'knowing' that makes the difference. They all know it, but seeing it (especially for a
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But, I mean, Elena was pretty judgmental about this same thing as a human even after all her supernatural interaction?
Hmmm, I haven't thought about that. But then, she also knows she did much better than she could've? She was in control. She even compelled those people to not feel pain. But I get you. It's not about the actual damage she did, it's about crossing the line between human and monster.
Bonnie's reaction in this context is fairly normal, i think.
Oh, Bonnie's reaction is perfectly normal. I'm mildly irritated that the show made her into an observer who has no full context, because it's a bit of a lazy technique, but it didn't even occur to me to blame Bonnie.
in fact I don't understand this nonsense about Elena physically NOT being able to drink animal blood or out of a blood bag, why can't it be that she doesn't WANT to, show, why this 'she has no other choice' thing?
I'm choosing to read this as a psychosomatic reaction for as long as I can.
(I was totally DDDDDDD: at the 'how to choose a victim' because his
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Oh, I like this interpretation!
Ugh, it's all a tangle. Basically, I can't decide if this is brilliant ambiguous storytelling or an idiotic attempt to appease both D/E and S/E shippers for as long as possible.
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I'm glad you posted, because this is exactly what has been tripping me up when I try to figure out if I even liked it. I keep squinting at it, but it is not helping.
Really annoyed at everyone for freaking out so much, when as far as I can tell Elena did . . . nothing wrong? I usually like Bonnie, but in this episode, D and E spent the entire episode talking about how they were coming here so she could learn to feed without hurting anyone, and then they did that, but then all of a sudden it was a horrible thing that everyone except Damon must *judge* and just urgh.
Yes, urgh. That is how I feel. I am tired of Stefan's grand speeches about things. Just so tired.
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Right, but I also totally understand Bonnie's reaction, especially considering how hard Bonnie herself finds it to be selfish. Bonnie's definition of selflessness can run laps around Elena's. So I'm sure Bonnie expected Elena to learn how to feed without hurting anyone (or well, drinking someone's blood constitutes hurting, but not hurting anyone irreparably), but seeing Elena ~enjoy it so much was disturbing.
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Well, It's not Bonnie's fault. She really walked in on them in a very unfortunate moment. I would've freaked out worse if I were here tbh. It was all out of context for her.
I am tired of Stefan's grand speeches about things.
Stefan is starting to pursue a white picket fence fantasy. Dear Lord.
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Elena is afraid of everything Damon represents to her mindset and life
Oh, agreed with that, definitely :). Huge overidentification issues. She wouldn't be rejecting him so consistently if it wasn't for that. See, I'm not really that confused when it comes to the general storyline, it's just this single episode that confused the hell out of me. Things were a bit off.
I think it's a deeper problem with Stefan. For him, it's so obvious that being a vampire is hell that it doesn't even occur to him that there might be worse things. Being a vampire is literally THE WORST in his mind. So he projects his mindset on Elena. Tbh, Damon does just the same very often. The difference is that Elena and Damon have a lot in common, so Damon's projections usually happen to be true.
I definitely see the deconstruction of Stefan the Hero generally in s4, but in this particular episode, I felt the framing wasn't 100% clear about it, so I'm freaking out a bit.
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It felt to me like the staging prompted Stefan as the romantic hero that would do anything for his lady love but I felt him as a self-centered idiot and on the other hand the staging prompted Damon as frat boy douche that doesn't care for anything or anyone but I felt him as overeager man that wanted to share a part of himself with his current best friend and girl he loves (same person). I don't know if it's just me that felt this.
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Yeah I mentioned in my post that I actually don't see the big deal about taking blood in the first place, so Elena's troubles are going straight over my head ngl. Stefan remains Stefan. I can't even go into that. He just remains Stefan. ~have mah babies and die in ma arms~
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~have mah babies and die in ma arms~
Yeah, that. All things aside: dude, she's 18, and you just assume she'll love you until her dying day? SHE IS EIGHTEEN! You're her high school boyfriend! Have a little realism and at least wait a few years before you take her for granted like that!
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This pretty much sums it up. Gross paternalism disguised as heroism.
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I LEGIT CHOCKED. WHY WOULD YOU?
/sorry, butting in
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Hmmm, I haven't thought about that. But then, she also knows she did much better than she could've? She was in control. She even compelled those people to not feel pain. But I get you. It's not about the actual damage she did, it's about crossing the line between human and monster.
Bonnie's reaction in this context is fairly normal, i think.
Oh, Bonnie's reaction is perfectly normal. I'm mildly irritated that the show made her into an observer who has no full context, because it's a bit of a lazy technique, but it didn't even occur to me to blame Bonnie.
in fact I don't understand this nonsense about Elena physically NOT being able to drink animal blood or out of a blood bag, why can't it be that she doesn't WANT to, show, why this 'she has no other choice' thing?
I'm choosing to read this as a psychosomatic reaction for as long as I can.
(I was totally DDDDDDD: at the 'how to choose a victim' because his ( ... )
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