TVD 4x02, Memorial

[upupa_epops]

I promised real thoughts on this episode, so here it goes ;). I'm terribly late with replying to comments and reading other episode reactions, I know. It's just that school started, real life takes up a lot of time, and when I actually have some internet time, I try to write fic. I'll do my best to be less late, but I'm not sure if I can catch up

Comments

[intrikate88]

Showing up to be the one oblig S/E shipper (sort of?) to write a comment... okay, not that I'm still really a shipper after last season, but they're cute together! And I think that's kind of what you're seeing and what the show is demonstrating-- new not-life for Elena, new circumstances with doppelganger worries out of the way, time to wipe the slate clean and be the couple they were when the show began... but it's only a shadow of it, really. Stefan is trying to be very conscious of Elena's choice and how he respected it even when it resulted in her death, and at the same time he is deciding how she's going to feed and survive and feel about things. Stefan and Elena try to make each other happy... but they're doing it by not mentioning the things that make them unhappy. They've gone from people who talked through their problems and deal with them to two people acting out the relationship they had before they lost a lot of innocence. And even though I'm about a season past shipping Elena with ANYONE because they all suck, I would be curious to see if she and Stefan can constructively and honestly work through the fact that he seriously fucked up in s3, that she clung to him for so many reasons, that he's trying to pretend to be who he was before s3 and it doesn't work, and all of that.

And come to think of it, it's like the two of them are trying to replay season 1. In the very first episode, Elena talked about the time limit on people caring how you're doing, and how long you can go before you just have to slap on a smile, say you're fine, and hold it together: she doesn't see any other option. I think back then, she was afraid of expressing how much she was hurting because it might annoy other people and drive them away. Now that she's lost even more people, she's probably internalized that idea even more-- stay fine, stay in control, and you get to keep your world and your loved ones. I think losing that is what scares Elena the most; she's faced death, she's faced becoming a vampire, and she hasn't lost her shit. But she cannot look like she's losing control, or like she's not going to be okay or get through things. So yeah, I agree with you, THAT'S what I want to see this season. She has lost enough people, it's tragic but it's no longer daring. This season, she needs to go ahead and lose her goddamn mind.

I LOVED that Caroline had the most sense in this episode. Of course she did. And along a similar line to seeing if Stefan and Elena can actually work on their issues, I hope that Caroline gets to repair her friendship with him as well, because she's going to be far more straightforward and cutting than Elena will be.

I'm really conflicted on my feelings about Stefan and Damon respecting Elena's choices these past two episodes. Because yes, Elena has always said that she wanted to live as a human, and Damon wanting that survival for her was within her desires. But Stefan did as she said in the moment of saving Matt (although I kind of think Elena was already dead from the hematoma and saving her wouldn't have mattered bc she didn't drown, but w/e) and Elena would never have gotten over him saving her at the expense of Matt's life. She doesn't really forgive sacrifices for her survival. I'm pretty much always against Damon's "Elena lives no matter what anybody says" attitude, because no, he doesn't own her life, she gets to choose to live it and if she wants to choose where it ends, then he just doesn't get to steal that from her. So Stefan being slightly more pragmatic and saying that yes, her choices have landed her in the current situation, so we're going to make the best of it and try not to make it worse. Except when he gives her a choice moving forward, that choice is either being Bambivore-or-Ripper, or being Damon. Neither of those options is valid for Elena, but both of them really refuse to see it.

I think Elena and Caroline and Bonnie just need to go on a long roadtrip, dump the boys, figure their lives out, bring out the best in each other, and say fuck the rest. That is the best thing that could happen, right?

[upupa_epops]

See, S/E stopped being cute to me a good while ago, now it's just terrifying. I really had a visceral reaction to the animal hunt last episode, when Elena cried after she fed on a deer. She was just so hungry and miserable, I want to feed her and make her not worried :(((((((((.

What I liked about 3x22 is that there literally was no good choice? You have two people drowning, either way someone days, no good option! Which is why I actually don't get the "Stefan respects Elena's choices" thing. I mean, we had a similar situation in 2x22: Damon was dying, Stefan literally locked him in a cellar mid-suicide, and then went out of his way to save him. Damon didn't like what Stefan did. He would've preferred to die rather than to let Stefan give himself over to Klaus (and he says it multiple times, tells Stefan he shouldn't have saved him). And yet I haven't seen anyone in fandom holding this behavior against Stefan, because, right or wrong, it's so deeply human. We don't talk about violating Damon's agency, because this was the matter of life and death. Violating someone's choice is wrong no matter what, but there are worse things, and letting a person you love die is one of them. Stefan did something wrong when he saved Matt, and if Damon was there instead of Stefan, he would've done a different kind of wrong. The Wickery Bridge scene in 3x22 is about choosing the lesser evil.

I'm pretty much always against Damon's "Elena lives no matter what anybody says" attitude, because no, he doesn't own her life, she gets to choose to live it and if she wants to choose where it ends, then he just doesn't get to steal that from her.

Yeah, I'm with Damon on this. Not because this is the right thing to do, to be fair. Damon's attitude is dickish and selfish, but it is the lesser evil for me. I don't approve of what Damon does, but I relate to it, I would've done the same damned thing.

Ugh, my comment consists mainly of rambling. Sorry :(.

[intrikate88]

You're very right about there being no good choice in 3x22- which is a symbol of them all growing up, I think, that they're losing the option of choosing the right thing to do; there are no right and wrong sides, just a maze of many people navigating and negotiating their very human desires and aims, and the clashes between those. Part of that was why I got a bit fed up with Klaus last season, because he was grandstanding as the Big Bad, but there were enough "small" dynamics going on that the big evil villain trying to take over was almost unnecessary.

Yeah, Stefan did ignore Damon's choice to die, which wasn't good of him even if understandable, but I do see a difference between that situation and either of them denying Elena's agency. The two of them are more evenly matched; if Damon had chosen to stake himself and get it over with, he could have, and he probably could have mustered up enough fight to keep Stefan from leaving to go to Klaus. With Elena, she isn't as strong or experienced. She can't stop Damon when he forces his blood into her mouth. She wouldn't have been able to pull Matt along or have the time to convey that she needed to with her brain bleeding out, had Damon been the one rescuing her at the bridge. The only thing keeping Elena from being completely denied any agency by Damon OR Stefan is their decision to step back and respect that she is a person too.

I don't know. There are no real answers to be found, which is probably the whole damn point.

[upupa_epops]

The two of them are more evenly matched; if Damon had chosen to stake himself and get it over with, he could have, and he probably could have mustered up enough fight to keep Stefan from leaving to go to Klaus.

They usually are, but not that day. Stefan surprised Damon, who was already weakened and feverish, and locked him up in a vampire-proof cellar. In 2x22, Damon was just as helpless as Elena in 3x22 (and 2x20, for that matter, when Damon force-fed her blood).

The problem is that this conflict is not only about agency. There are other values coming into play (like life and love), and I don't think agency can be treated as the ultimate criterium to distinguish between right and wrong.