Here's another thing that ticks me off and makes me blame the writers (AKA RTD). I understand that it might have been difficult to write or re-write a series after Billie Piper up and left on them, if that's how it happened. Suddenly they're thrust into a situation in which they have to introduce a new companion and make her likable, flesh her out, give her a relationship with the Doctor. They are the ones who opted to make it 'difficult' with unrequited love. If they had never made Rose into the True Love Companion, they would not have had such a huge problem trying to replace her.
What we end up with is an entire season of Martha proving herself over and over and over again to the Doctor, and him never fully admitting to giving a shit, which is a disappointment in a lot of ways. Worse than that, it's shoddy writing because Martha and the Doctor are both so well written in their respective roles that I, as a viewer, can't quite figure out why Rose is overshadowing everything. It is a matter of timing, not lack of
( ... )
In Doomsday, on the beach, when Rose cries, "I love you", the Doctor says, "Quite right too. ...And I suppose... if it's my last chance to say it...Rose Tyler [I love you <- we'll just assume he was going to finish with that
( ... )
wow, um XD that was a lot to read. But that's alright, I love reading this kind of stuff, it's just that it's four in the morning, so bear with me.
Even if it's all true and this is all some elaborate three-season arc to finish out the Rose story, it is a horrible thing to have done to Martha.
My thoughts are bound to be a little fragmented here, apologies.
Here's the thing. At least if the Doctor was that much in love with Rose, it can justify (partially) his treatment of Martha. We'll give him the benefit of the doubt for having just lost the woman he loves. But if it turns out that it wasn't True Love, doesn't that just lower Martha even more? If it wasn't True Love with Rose, then there's no good reason for him to deny Martha, unless he really is a cold and clueless idiot.
I didn't quite see 'Quite Right too' like that. I thought it was just the Doctor's natural self-regard. 'Of course she loves me,' thinks he, 'I'm brilliant.' :-D
actually no, that's not it. I *did* think the same thing - and that's kind of exactly my point. "of course you do" is a proper response (for some people) when you're talking about a deep mutual love - but not a *passionate*, *romantic* love - because it doesn't return any strong feeling at all. let me try to express what I mean another way; compare the following dialogues:
"I love you." "Quite right too"/"Of course you do." implied is either, I'm awesome, or I love you as well. either way the statement remains very matter of fact, very even keeled - and if he's saying "I love you as well", there's a lack of passion there that indicates it is not romantic love.
vs.
"I love you" "I know". note how no feeling is returned here either, but so little is said that something must not be being expressed - either returned passion (in which case later would come, "I love you" ) or the desire to avoid rejecting the professed love because it is *not* returned. But "I know" says so little that there simply has to be more to it, and the
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ooo, I've been really pondering this now. *sound of cogs whirring* I think your reading is interesting, but I do disagree, on balance.
I don't think Rose is a straight-forward 'one true love' in any exclusive sense, but I do think that Tennant's performance is perfectly in keeping with 'Quite right too' being of the same order as 'I know' in your very well expressed comment.
I tend to think the rules of engagement aren't quite the same when we're talking about the Doctor, in terms of the expressions and emotion involved. I suppose it's the little kink-in-the-bedsheet that allows us to have all these different viewpoints on the character.
I do think there was a romantic element to Rose/Ten. I don't think it was the primary element, but I do think it was there. Rose/Nine was much more paternal, and I think the contrast is probably what convinces me
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I can see how someone might disagree with my interpretation. I agree with you that 9/Rose was much more paternal than 10/Rose. I even agree that there was a romantic element to the 10/Rose relationship. But I think that element was that Rose was in (puppy) love with 10 (after all, 10 looked and acted a lot younger than 9, who she had already kind of hero-worshipped), and 10 loved her very much (just not romantically) and therefore didn't want to disillusion her. I had to re-examine my ideas before I posted a response, though, and I can see how one might interpret the canon as you have done. Still waiting on the end of s4 for some sort of conclusive evidence (although there are, of course, no guarantees that we'll get any, lol). Thanks for your comment, and for making me think about it in more depth (again)!
Finally, thanks for linking to fantasyjax's fanrant - that was very interesting reading. her idea of the problems with "breaking the companion role" seem quite sound and if RTD has indeed gone that route, I agree we are in a lot of trouble, unless he or some other poor soul succeeding him puts in a tremendous effort to fix it (the only way I can think of would be to have the Doctor "fall in love" again - should he "prove" to have been "in love" with Rose - and that comes with another whole host of problems. After all, he can't fall in love all the time - so which companions get the honor, and which don't? What's wrong with those that don't? and on, and on). Let's hope RTD is indeed the genius his colleagues claim and has *not* chosen that path...or has a better way out of it than me, lol.
Here's another thing that ticks me off and makes me blame the writers (AKA RTD). I understand that it might have been difficult to write or re-write a series after Billie Piper up and left on them, if that's how it happened. Suddenly they're thrust into a situation in which they have to introduce a new companion and make her likable, flesh her out, give her a relationship with the Doctor. They are the ones who opted to make it 'difficult' with unrequited love. If they had never made Rose into the True Love Companion, they would not have had such a huge problem trying to replace her.
What we end up with is an entire season of Martha proving herself over and over and over again to the Doctor, and him never fully admitting to giving a shit, which is a disappointment in a lot of ways. Worse than that, it's shoddy writing because Martha and the Doctor are both so well written in their respective roles that I, as a viewer, can't quite figure out why Rose is overshadowing everything. It is a matter of timing, not lack of ( ... )
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Ok. This last reason may just be me. But:
In Doomsday, on the beach, when Rose cries, "I love you", the Doctor says, "Quite right too. ...And I suppose... if it's my last chance to say it...Rose Tyler [I love you <- we'll just assume he was going to finish with that ( ... )
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Even if it's all true and this is all some elaborate three-season arc to finish out the Rose story, it is a horrible thing to have done to Martha.
My thoughts are bound to be a little fragmented here, apologies.
Here's the thing. At least if the Doctor was that much in love with Rose, it can justify (partially) his treatment of Martha. We'll give him the benefit of the doubt for having just lost the woman he loves. But if it turns out that it wasn't True Love, doesn't that just lower Martha even more? If it wasn't True Love with Rose, then there's no good reason for him to deny Martha, unless he really is a cold and clueless idiot.
I'm really not making sense, am I? Blargh.
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"I love you."
"Quite right too"/"Of course you do." implied is either, I'm awesome, or I love you as well. either way the statement remains very matter of fact, very even keeled - and if he's saying "I love you as well", there's a lack of passion there that indicates it is not romantic love.
vs.
"I love you"
"I know". note how no feeling is returned here either, but so little is said that something must not be being expressed - either returned passion (in which case later would come, "I love you" ) or the desire to avoid rejecting the professed love because it is *not* returned. But "I know" says so little that there simply has to be more to it, and the ( ... )
Reply
I don't think Rose is a straight-forward 'one true love' in any exclusive sense, but I do think that Tennant's performance is perfectly in keeping with 'Quite right too' being of the same order as 'I know' in your very well expressed comment.
I tend to think the rules of engagement aren't quite the same when we're talking about the Doctor, in terms of the expressions and emotion involved. I suppose it's the little kink-in-the-bedsheet that allows us to have all these different viewpoints on the character.
I do think there was a romantic element to Rose/Ten. I don't think it was the primary element, but I do think it was there. Rose/Nine was much more paternal, and I think the contrast is probably what convinces me ( ... )
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