Question for those of you who like Torchwood

[trulybloom]

So many things I haven't gotten around to posting yet. But I'll start with this question:

Comments

[aelfsiden]

It really seems to me that since Jack had already lived so long and seen so many people he loved die that it got to be really hard for him to take that last step with Ianto, almost as if somewhere inside him he believed that if he admitted to being a couple or gave his love freely it would somehow jinx him/them. The way the story built towards the finale you saw the pain that Jack had to live with over so many years - and the guilt over things such as the children he led to sacrifice in 1965. It drove home the fact that Jack's very existence was built of tragedy - something that we were aware of but that RTD apparently wanted us to REALLY understand before he just yanked TW out from under us.

Jack spent so much time -trying- to die, testing his limits, pushing away the pain/guilt/memories he had to live with on a daily basis, that even when Ianto bared himself so sweetly Jack was unable to do anything but keep that last bit of himself hidden to try to stop the pain he knew would eventually come when he had to watch Ianto die sometime in the future - and linger on and on and on. Jack hid behind his charm and his devil-may-care attitude to protect himself. With Ianto's death you could see that a bit more of Jack wasted away, then having to sacrifice his own grandson . . . by the time the end of the series came around of course there was nothing more for Jack to do but run as far and as fast as he could. There really wasn't anything else he could have done at that point.

Think about it. In his eyes he couldn't save anyone he loved - Ianto, his grandson, Tosh, Owen, et al - what about Gwen and Rhys? Their baby? Might he not believe at that point that if he had stayed his 'curse' might touch them as well? Hell, everyone he loved died. I think I would have gotten the hell out, too. Anyway, that's why it kind of seemed like it was setting the ending up.

Also - and this is just a personal feeling not based on anything spoilerish that I've read - since David Tennant is leaving and they're bringing in a new Doctor, do you think maybe Jack might appear for a while to kind of ease the way for us hardcore Ten fans? LMAO - I dunno, it's a thought.

Oh, also? Chick. Damn. WTH's her name? The Gwen chick. If I saw her name I'd know it. She's actually really pregnant. So that could be why they ended it. Or . . . I don't know, hell. I just know I'm PISSED. RTD harshed my TW squee and that kind of pisses me off.

[trulybloom]

I just saw this (been dealing with some stupid computer stuff all evening and got totally distracted from checking my email). And it's late, so I'm gonna be completely incoherent in a three minutes... But I wanted to say something now, even if it's short. I'd LOVE to talk to you about this in more detail and will respond again tomorrow - once I'm home from work.

I think there's a lot of stuff going on - in fact, I'm glad there is - but it makes it difficult to sort out all the causes-and-effects that are going on and to what degrees.

I know Tennant is leaving - I believe he has one more special after "Planet Of The Dead" then he's out. Wish it were more, but what can you do - he's definitely my favorite doctor, but I open to the new guy. IT's nice to get a bit of new perspective, new personality to freshen things up.

That's something they can't really do with Jack. Though, I am really blurry on his time line now - I need to go find it on line, because I'm sure it is on line somewhere.

We know that he was a Time Agent for a while, but we don't know much about his involvement with them, right? Just that he did something bad and they wiped his memory and dumped him (was it on earth they dumped him or did he just manage to make his way here, I don't recall). But, basically, other than his guilt over losing his brother when they were children, what does Jack remember for his memories were wiped?

I really sort of feel like I have to rewatch the entire series again just to have this motivations in this one make complete sense.

I get why Jack leaves - like you'd say, I'd leave to - people die around Jack and not just of old age, which would be bad enough, but no they die badly because of his own actions.

I think Jack might have been a happier fellow before he met Rose during WWII - she show him a better life with her and the doctor, a more moral life. And I think he liked it, wanted to be like them, wanted to changed, but he's not the same person as them so he doens't know how to be like they are. Though he does try - he does try to make the big decisions that the Doctor is forced to make. And the Doctor himself isn't always perfect either - people die around him all the time - but he handles those deaths better than Jack does for some reason, so reason Jack can't figure out, so it ends up looming over him the next inevitable failure which may cost someone their life.

And I like what you said about Jack leaving - wanting to run away from Earth, from the reminders of the people he loved, but yeah also from Gwen and Rhys and their baby and he can't guarantee that the same harm won't come to them that have come to so many because they know Jack.

So, yeah, I pretty much totally agree with you on this.

But what about Ianto - not immortal. Lost his first girlfriend Lisa under horrific circumstances. Then falls for Jack and they have a really lovely time fooling around together in the past season. I expectd it in this one as well - as least as much as we'd gottne before, at least at the beginning before all hell broke loose.

But we didn't get any. We got Jack being funny and evasive about their relationship, whihc was clearly making Ianto uncomfortable, feeling alone trying to figure out how he feels and to what degree he'll be allowed to take those feelings given Jack's too-casual manner about it all. And then there's the cmment about is sexuality = first form his sister, then his brother in law, then that old guy they were trying to help.

I think I'm just really sad that Jack and Ianto did get to reconcile, they won't have a "thank god we lived through this" celebratory fuck, like Gwen and Rhys certainly did.

And I think it makes Ianto's death more tragic becaues it came in the middle of all this angsty banter about where or not they were in a relationship - and now he's dead, Jack is left with all those non-commitalfeelings and angsty last words, and that just has to make him see so much worse.

Okay, I'm getting blurry and I don't know if any of that made a lick os sense. I'll try to post something more intelligent tomorrow.