ROUND TWO

Jan 07, 2011 00:50


ROUND 2 CLOSED!

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round 2, !prompt

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Re: FILL: "Obsidian" (Part 4) END grey_sw June 1 2011, 00:57:56 UTC
What kept it in check for young!Flynn was that Flynn's a genuinely nice guy when it comes down to it - a classic Chaotic Good. His childish tendencies were tempered with genuine love for his friends, compassion for others, and a desire to do right.

Clu was never given those. Clu understood his directives, but never seemed to grasp the whole concept of empathy. Without it, there was nothing to get him considering that his actions were anything less than completely justified and necessary.

I agree that Flynn was a good guy, but I also think he had a huge blind spot when it came to the programs. To him, they were things, his things that he made so he could change the world, more than they were real people who could be loved. As time went on, that blind spot became Clu's role model, not the good guy; if Betrayal is anything to go by, Flynn stopped being good to Clu many centuries before the coup.

That said, I think Clu did have the good parts of Kevin ("he's me"). But to Clu, things like empathy and love and compassion were secondary to his directives -- the Perfect System, Changing The World -- because that's as far as Flynn's (and Tron's) empathy and love and compassion for him went. I think he even wanted to do better, in his own way ("unlike our selfish creator, blah blah blah I will never betray you!")... but it was all messed up, just like everything else in his scrambled heart. ;;

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Re: FILL: "Obsidian" (Part 4) END smiley_anon June 1 2011, 18:42:30 UTC
XD *resists... urge... to... redebate...*

Seriously, though, what'd Tron ever do to Clu?

Already flailed at you about this on FF.net, allronix1, but... yeah. Still scary good and beautifully painful. Your excellent Yori-fics are making me want to write her...

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Re: FILL: "Obsidian" (Part 4) END grey_sw June 1 2011, 18:52:22 UTC
Seriously, though, what'd Tron ever do to Clu?

By that, I meant that he Fought For The Users. I think it's fair to say that his directives came before friendship, too...

Betrayal makes it seem as if they weren't really friends since long before the coup, anyway. Tron wasn't into many of the ~perfect~ changes Clu was making. :P

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Re: FILL: "Obsidian" (Part 4) END smiley_anon June 1 2011, 19:19:11 UTC
:D Fair enough, I suppose. Though whether it was an issue of "oh noes, directives" or simply Tron staying loyal to those he considered actual friends, I think could be up for debate. He and Clu clashed about how Clu treated programs (both Basics and ISOs) well before he wound up actually fighting Clu for his user's sake.

That actually interested me a lot in Betrayal-- Tron never actually objects to anything Clu says against Flynn. If anything, he seems to agree on a lot of points, that Flynn set up the system such that it needs him, but keeps ditching them all for cycles. His rift with Clu seems to start when Clu abuses his power over the programs, turning the games to killzones (which really, Clu? Was there a point besides pissing Tron off?) and deliberately targeting ISOs.

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Re: FILL: "Obsidian" (Part 4) END grey_sw June 1 2011, 19:45:14 UTC
His rift with Clu seems to start when Clu abuses his power over the programs, turning the games to killzones (which really, Clu? Was there a point besides pissing Tron off?)

The only thing I can think of is also in Betrayal. Flynn mentions that the Grid was "made to handle a certain amount of traffic" or some such. Given ever-increasing numbers of ISOs, maybe the games were meant to take the pressure off. Clu seemed to see them as a form of natural selection, at any rate.

Pissing Tron off was definitely a bonus, however. As was having a convenient way to keep the population in line... :3

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Re: FILL: "Obsidian" (Part 4) END allronix1 June 1 2011, 22:26:41 UTC
I wasn't originally gonna touch this one myself, as the whole idea gave me nightmares.

Then, I fell asleep reading Betrayal on the bus. One world-class nightmare later, and it was "write it out or have it come back." And might as well inflict the bad trip on everyone else in range because I'm evil like that.

As for "what did Tron do to Clu?" Tron knew too much about Users and tolerated User imperfection. He fought for all the citizens on the Grid. Tron may not have liked the fact that Flynn vanished for cycles at a time, but he acknowledged that Flynn had responsibilities and a world of his own to tend to, even if they could not see or comprehend that world. Tron also tolerated the Games as recreation - not as a way to weed out the system's weak elements.

Tron tolerated imperfection. Tron would fight to protect it, even if he couldn't understand it. Therefore, he was just too damn dangerous to be allowed freedom and too damn useful to de-rez.

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