[controversial] on transmisogyny and male privilege

[aaskew]

(apologies in advance because this possibly comes across as a 'what about the menz? :(' post. I've tried my best not to make it so, but this is a topic I'd like to discuss further

Comments

[varanus]

Yeah, like dogboi below, I can pretty much say that I was subjected to very little direct sexism pre-transition, and various misogynist cultural messages just passed me by, whether they were actually aimed at me or not. Most of the oppression and violence I have experienced in my life has been homophobic in nature, i.e., I was obviously not a girl despite my apparently-female embodiment. I did not live in paradise (unless you count dying steel towns paradise); my family of origin are working-class rural people from the edges of Appalachia.

In that time and place, it was clear that some people were not going to get married and have kids. Homosexuality was deeply stigmatized, and transsexuality was a distant talk-show thing that people did in New York and California. Nevertheless, everyone knew that some men would be florists or hairdressers or organists, and some women would be truck drivers or mechanics or join the military. Such people were looked on with disdain, but there's nothing to be done, really.

For me, it was clear from an early age that I was not going to be auditioning for Homecoming queen. Had I been clearly recognized as male, my personality and activity choices would have been unremarkable, and I doubt my parents and I would've had such terrible fights about clothing. But after a lot of (unsuccessful) discouragement, my family, teachers, and peers sort of just had to make peace with me being the "butch" one. No one has ever told me to stay in the kitchen-most people assumed I couldn't cook at all. I've never not been taken seriously because I was a "woman." I once had to role-play being asked illegal questions at job interviews, and the people running the role-play burst out laughing at the sight of me being asked about my marital status. I have never made decisions about my routine or behavior because I feared sexual assault. I can't remember a time I was sexually harassed. No one was surprised that I was the only "girl," well, pretty much anywhere. Homophobia? That was everywhere, and often horrifically violent. But it wasn't at all the kind of thing that actual women (cis and trans) have described to me.

When I transitioned, I discovered how much male chauvinism I'd internalized; for me, having been allegedly living as a woman gave me no insight at all to the way misogyny oppresses women, nor did it give me any real first-hand experiences In fact, I probably had a bigger stumbling block than most other men on that front. I strive to be a feminist, but I discovered to my shock that I actually don't have a leg up at all.

[the_physicist]

Such people were looked on with disdain, but there's nothing to be done, really.

I'm confused. So you are saying there was sexist prejudice that had a social affect, but not one that had an effect on your career choices or threatened your safety?

It is interesting for me to hear these stories as I've only recently found this comm and otherwise haven't had an opportunity to talk about trans* issues before. I guess I assumed everyone would share my (very different) experiences.

Thank you for taking the time to talk about your experiences.

[varanus]

I wouldn't say it was a "sexist" prejudice-I experienced it as a homophobic/transphobic one. It had nothing to do with me being perceived as a woman and everything to do with me being perceived as extremely gender variant. Had I been actually perceived as a woman, I might have gotten the sort of sexist flack that you described.

Homophobia/transphobia affected my career choices and threatened my safety. I have the feeling that if sexism didn't exist at all, the problems with me being seen as gender-variant would have lessened, but I doubt they'd disappear. Because, again, I did not have the career limitations or threats that actual women did. For instance, I had a hard time getting "front of the house" jobs in high school and college despite the fact that I'm better at talking to strangers than your average person. I got steered into dishwashing and janitorial work rather than waiting tables (both of which pay less because there aren't tips involved). I never feared rape, but I've been in fistfights of the sort that most actual women never have to deal with. I doubt I was ever in danger of being sexually assaulted, but I sure did have to step quick to avoid ass-whuppings from dudes that would never dream of hitting a girl.

[the_physicist]

I see what you mean. they saw you as 'butch lesbian' so you didn't have to put up with 'be a good housewife and bear children!' stuff, but then they threw a truck load of homophobia on you. :( I'm really sorry you had to put up with that crap.

[varanus]

Yeah, it kinda sucked.

But I have to say that it wasn't all bad, and my pre-transition life has dovetailed very neatly with my current life, in a way that I don't think would be as easy if I'd actually been treated like a girl/woman. Being seen as an ersatz man isn't the worst thing in the world for someone who feels himself to be an actual man.