Pandora Hearts Retrace LXIII Discussion
...I was going to wait for the scanlation, but we've all been waiting long enough so...
Here we go.
Letting you all know before we start, I have nasty cold (among other ailments) right now and I'm really not all there *does Cheshire Cat magic trick*, so please excuse any lapses of coherency... or sanity. ^^' I'm just sick, is all. My marbles haven't been lost... Or maybe Sensei stole them.
We're all mad here.
Okay, it seems like every time something's about to go down, we get Rufus and Cheryl talking it over. Crazy omniscient bamfs that seem more like they're watching over the story than participating in it. I want to know more about them and how exactly they have a hand in all this. Because they totally do.
... So we're getting a totally "normal" Leo here at the beginning. Nothing too crazy so far, not so Baskerville-like. It's good to know that assuming his role as head of the Baskervilles hasn't caused him to behave differently. Lately I've been dreading the possibility that the role would eventually (or quickly) consume him.
Honestly though, I was more attracted to his long-hair self... sans glasses. Oh but he's very cute. <3
Aww, Vince. You cut Leo's bangs away just like Jack cut yours! Did you give him a hug and tell him that you loved his eyes because they had golden specks that remind you of Gil's?
"I've come for you, you know, " Leo says. And Oz is startled because he said that so suddenly. But that's always Oz's excuse, isn't it? "It happened so suddenly, I can't have a reaction." First example that comes to my head is in chapter 9. But I'm sure that it's happened several times already. Now, don't tell me Oz actually believes this stuff he tells other people. I suppose when you say something enough you start to believe it, but this is quite the problem if I'm understanding correctly.
"This is one more chance for me to invite you out, although this time it might go on a bit longer." WHAT. When was the last time you kidnapped "invited Oz out"??? o__o
Whoa whoa. You don't need to kidnap him, Vince? Please explain what you're doing by taking him then? Or are you saying he'll go willingly?
BIRDCAGE! BIRDCAGE BIRDCAGE BIRDCAGE! on page 8! And what is that box inside? Pandora's, perhaps (just a thought)? I do hope someone else noticed that. Sensei loves birdcages, and I have yet to determine a meaning to it all. But oh boy, does it have meaning. What are you guys' thoughts?
The way Vince calls him master is starting to creep me out. I've grown to associate that word with Gil and Oz, and now I'm like... "Ew." Anybody care to compare and contrast? Sensei has shoved it in our faces, we may as well.
What's this mention of Duke Barma? Yes, of course, he knows all. And has always known all. And what is his true role in this story? I really feel like he's going to turn up at the end of the series and be like, "What! I knew it all along, b*tches!" The Izaya of Pandora Hearts, only less of a bastard.
I wonder how Gil feels, knowing that he was supposed to be the one in Leo's current position? I wonder if he's gone so far as to figure out that him and Elliot would be all cool bffs and chillin' if Gil had only received Glen's soul when he was supposed to. I wonder if he even remembers that much about his past. I know he got some memories, but all? And how much about Elliot's death did The All-Knowing Rufus tell? Again, I'd assume all but... Oh that smells like a fic. *shot*
People close to Leo were mysteriously dying, the folks around the little village he lived in started to speculate... Sounds like Lily's backstory. Oh wait... isn't she a Baskerville too? ...Perhaps Lily's people were a bit less kind.
LEO. LOOKS. LIKE. ALICE.
But I feel like I talk about this one every month, so I'm not even going there.
But I will go here, because it needs to be done:
The images aren't really the same, but I'm pointing out that they're both sitting on a wall. That's totally Alice's thing (she also sat atop a stack of boxes in chapter 10). I assumed it has something to do with liking the elevation. Being both symbolically and literally above others... Now then, Sensei. What are you trying to tell us about Alice and Leo, hmm? How are they similar?
And look how he points his toes on the wall. How elegant.~ *shot* No one but me cares about pointed toes, lol.
Elliot.. ;w; Oh, this is heartbreaking. I-I can't take this anymore. *quits PH forever*
...
*comes running back*
He said everyone else told him that it was just a dream. As in, not just Elliot. Everyone. Leo must have told quite a few people about his adventures in the chasm. I wonder all of who knew about this, and how that's affected their actions. *cough*Duke Nightray*cough cough*
Okay, on page 21, hearing that everything that happened in the chasm was a dream, Leo reaches out and grabs Elliot's sleeve. Despite the crazed look in his eyes, I think he's reaching out to Elliot for support. Because he certainly needs support in this. He's confused and probably scared and again recognizing that he is so different from everyone else (even though those were Leo's words in narration, I believe he was telling Oz his thoughts at this time) and he needs Elliot to keep him sane.
All this time, he was able to keep Glen at bay, until Elliot was hurt, then he fell to Glen's influence. But after that time, until Elliot died, Leo again ignored Glen. But after Elliot's death Leo gave up the fight, accepting "Glen's" soul and his role as the leader of the Baskervilles. So how likely is it that it wasn't Leo thinking all the while that he was "strange", but Glen telling him so?
I really love how Elliot carries his sword with him all the time. Like being prepared to protect the Nightray household was the most important thing to him. I wonder if he valued his family's honor more or less than Leo... I guess I'd still say less, since his last words were an apology to Leo even though he was the one who, indadvertedly, destroyed the Nightrays.
"Sometimes our conversations don't mesh together." Now I have to wonder just how much HD was influencing Elliot. Apparently, it was doing more than just covering it's tracks in regards to HH incidents... What else did it mess with? And why?
We know that it changed Elliot's memory of the song. Perhaps that was because it was protecting Leo? Hiding his identity as the next "Glen" maybe?
Why are you broken, Leo honey?
You guys know what I always have to say about feathers.... and lookie there. *points*
Oh you heard about Fianna from Barma? Did you, Oz. Figures. RUFUS KNOWS ALL. I'M TELLING YOU GUYS.
Leo didn't want Yura to know about his friendship with Elliot, so he hid their connection and that was why he couldn't go. Go where? To live with Elly (Elly *sniff*)? That's what it seems like, but it doesn't make any sense.
Okay, THIS. Hello, Alice.
Tell me you see the similarities here.
Dude, when Leo makes his little announcement about Alyss, Echo looks so sad. I really, really feel for her right now. She seems like she wants to be on the other side so badly, but she has no choice because of Zwei and Vincent. Poor darling. *pets*
Btw, that should be some indication of what a good idea it would be to kill Alyss. I know Echo is in on all the Baskerville plans because of Zwei, but even still, understanding everything, she thinks it's a bad idea. We should be paying close attention to her from now on.
It seems like everyone has new clothes now! Does this symbolize a new stage in the series, Sensei? I think it does. Yup.
And Break you're up! Yay! Where's Reim?
"Save Alice," she says. Save her. What sort of danger is Alice in, I wonder? What does Alyss know about what is to come that we don't? Now that's a question. And the answering of it, I believe, will mark the end of this series.
Whoa, right here (from page 31) what's that behind Break? It slightly resembles Mad Hatter, but Break didn't have Mad Hatter at the time. He only got Mad Hatter after joining Pandora, because that was his legal contract. So what is that shadowy thing?
And on the bottom right-hand corner of page 32.. are those rocks? What are they? And why are they there? And, once again, what is Sensei trying to say?
Oh I do not like seeing Leo in that robe.
At the bottom center of page 34, Leo very deliberately steps on a white feather. And what in the world does this one mean? It just screams "symbol" to me.
Are you telling me that the people who we always thought were the bad guys just might be the good guys after all? Damn. You go Sensei.
I've never really considered Glen or the Baskervilles as villains, just victims of circumstance and someone else's choices, like everyone else in this series. But now, NOW. Mochizuki Jun-sensei, I bow to you.
"I don't like brandishing the word justice... THere's no justice nor evil, only the wills of people." Um, excuse me, but I believe this may be the theme of the whole damn series. OZ. YOU DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH I LOVE YOU. Sometimes I think, just for a fleeting moment, that I might love him even more than Gil. But then I banish that thought and huggle my imaginary Gilbert. But I do admire Oz to the ends of the earth, I'll tell you that. And this has only magnified it.
And then, on page 38, there is no longer a white feather beneath Leo's foot, but a black feather on the ground in front of his foot. ...Seeeennnnseeeeeeiiiii~ What do you meeeeaaaaannnnn???? I don't understaaaaaaaaaaand! D:
So Oz is part of what's making Alyss unstable? I wonder how, and all places this could go.
"By the Jabberwock's chain of conviction, I will judge you!" Everyone's got that? Okay, now check this out. OH. DANG. LEO. WHAT. ARE. YOU. PLANNING.
(It is Jabberwock, btw, not Jabberwocky. Jabberwocky was only the name of the poem, not the creature itself.)
Also, that was Zai, not Glen. I'm wondering if all of Glen's dark-winged birds possess the chain of conviction, if he was able to "bear" it too... But if that's the case, then Rufus and Gil also... (as well as either Sheryl or Shelly) have way more power than they realize at this point.
But what am I talking about? It's Rufus, of course he knows, what doesn't he know?!
Alright, this was too long. And messy. Fooling with bullet point is just too much work for me right now; and it's time consuming, so no.
I hope you all got through okay anyway! :D
So! Let's discuss!
Here we go.
Letting you all know before we start, I have nasty cold (among other ailments) right now and I'm really not all there *does Cheshire Cat magic trick*, so please excuse any lapses of coherency... or sanity. ^^' I'm just sick, is all. My marbles haven't been lost... Or maybe Sensei stole them.
We're all mad here.
Okay, it seems like every time something's about to go down, we get Rufus and Cheryl talking it over. Crazy omniscient bamfs that seem more like they're watching over the story than participating in it. I want to know more about them and how exactly they have a hand in all this. Because they totally do.
... So we're getting a totally "normal" Leo here at the beginning. Nothing too crazy so far, not so Baskerville-like. It's good to know that assuming his role as head of the Baskervilles hasn't caused him to behave differently. Lately I've been dreading the possibility that the role would eventually (or quickly) consume him.
Honestly though, I was more attracted to his long-hair self... sans glasses. Oh but he's very cute. <3
Aww, Vince. You cut Leo's bangs away just like Jack cut yours! Did you give him a hug and tell him that you loved his eyes because they had golden specks that remind you of Gil's?
"I've come for you, you know, " Leo says. And Oz is startled because he said that so suddenly. But that's always Oz's excuse, isn't it? "It happened so suddenly, I can't have a reaction." First example that comes to my head is in chapter 9. But I'm sure that it's happened several times already. Now, don't tell me Oz actually believes this stuff he tells other people. I suppose when you say something enough you start to believe it, but this is quite the problem if I'm understanding correctly.
"This is one more chance for me to invite you out, although this time it might go on a bit longer." WHAT. When was the last time you kidnapped "invited Oz out"??? o__o
Whoa whoa. You don't need to kidnap him, Vince? Please explain what you're doing by taking him then? Or are you saying he'll go willingly?
BIRDCAGE! BIRDCAGE BIRDCAGE BIRDCAGE! on page 8! And what is that box inside? Pandora's, perhaps (just a thought)? I do hope someone else noticed that. Sensei loves birdcages, and I have yet to determine a meaning to it all. But oh boy, does it have meaning. What are you guys' thoughts?
The way Vince calls him master is starting to creep me out. I've grown to associate that word with Gil and Oz, and now I'm like... "Ew." Anybody care to compare and contrast? Sensei has shoved it in our faces, we may as well.
What's this mention of Duke Barma? Yes, of course, he knows all. And has always known all. And what is his true role in this story? I really feel like he's going to turn up at the end of the series and be like, "What! I knew it all along, b*tches!" The Izaya of Pandora Hearts, only less of a bastard.
I wonder how Gil feels, knowing that he was supposed to be the one in Leo's current position? I wonder if he's gone so far as to figure out that him and Elliot would be all cool bffs and chillin' if Gil had only received Glen's soul when he was supposed to. I wonder if he even remembers that much about his past. I know he got some memories, but all? And how much about Elliot's death did The All-Knowing Rufus tell? Again, I'd assume all but... Oh that smells like a fic. *shot*
People close to Leo were mysteriously dying, the folks around the little village he lived in started to speculate... Sounds like Lily's backstory. Oh wait... isn't she a Baskerville too? ...Perhaps Lily's people were a bit less kind.
LEO. LOOKS. LIKE. ALICE.
But I feel like I talk about this one every month, so I'm not even going there.
But I will go here, because it needs to be done:
The images aren't really the same, but I'm pointing out that they're both sitting on a wall. That's totally Alice's thing (she also sat atop a stack of boxes in chapter 10). I assumed it has something to do with liking the elevation. Being both symbolically and literally above others... Now then, Sensei. What are you trying to tell us about Alice and Leo, hmm? How are they similar?
And look how he points his toes on the wall. How elegant.~ *shot* No one but me cares about pointed toes, lol.
Elliot.. ;w; Oh, this is heartbreaking. I-I can't take this anymore. *quits PH forever*
...
*comes running back*
He said everyone else told him that it was just a dream. As in, not just Elliot. Everyone. Leo must have told quite a few people about his adventures in the chasm. I wonder all of who knew about this, and how that's affected their actions. *cough*Duke Nightray*cough cough*
Okay, on page 21, hearing that everything that happened in the chasm was a dream, Leo reaches out and grabs Elliot's sleeve. Despite the crazed look in his eyes, I think he's reaching out to Elliot for support. Because he certainly needs support in this. He's confused and probably scared and again recognizing that he is so different from everyone else (even though those were Leo's words in narration, I believe he was telling Oz his thoughts at this time) and he needs Elliot to keep him sane.
All this time, he was able to keep Glen at bay, until Elliot was hurt, then he fell to Glen's influence. But after that time, until Elliot died, Leo again ignored Glen. But after Elliot's death Leo gave up the fight, accepting "Glen's" soul and his role as the leader of the Baskervilles. So how likely is it that it wasn't Leo thinking all the while that he was "strange", but Glen telling him so?
I really love how Elliot carries his sword with him all the time. Like being prepared to protect the Nightray household was the most important thing to him. I wonder if he valued his family's honor more or less than Leo... I guess I'd still say less, since his last words were an apology to Leo even though he was the one who, indadvertedly, destroyed the Nightrays.
"Sometimes our conversations don't mesh together." Now I have to wonder just how much HD was influencing Elliot. Apparently, it was doing more than just covering it's tracks in regards to HH incidents... What else did it mess with? And why?
We know that it changed Elliot's memory of the song. Perhaps that was because it was protecting Leo? Hiding his identity as the next "Glen" maybe?
Why are you broken, Leo honey?
You guys know what I always have to say about feathers.... and lookie there. *points*
Oh you heard about Fianna from Barma? Did you, Oz. Figures. RUFUS KNOWS ALL. I'M TELLING YOU GUYS.
Leo didn't want Yura to know about his friendship with Elliot, so he hid their connection and that was why he couldn't go. Go where? To live with Elly (Elly *sniff*)? That's what it seems like, but it doesn't make any sense.
Okay, THIS. Hello, Alice.
Tell me you see the similarities here.
Dude, when Leo makes his little announcement about Alyss, Echo looks so sad. I really, really feel for her right now. She seems like she wants to be on the other side so badly, but she has no choice because of Zwei and Vincent. Poor darling. *pets*
Btw, that should be some indication of what a good idea it would be to kill Alyss. I know Echo is in on all the Baskerville plans because of Zwei, but even still, understanding everything, she thinks it's a bad idea. We should be paying close attention to her from now on.
It seems like everyone has new clothes now! Does this symbolize a new stage in the series, Sensei? I think it does. Yup.
And Break you're up! Yay! Where's Reim?
"Save Alice," she says. Save her. What sort of danger is Alice in, I wonder? What does Alyss know about what is to come that we don't? Now that's a question. And the answering of it, I believe, will mark the end of this series.
Whoa, right here (from page 31) what's that behind Break? It slightly resembles Mad Hatter, but Break didn't have Mad Hatter at the time. He only got Mad Hatter after joining Pandora, because that was his legal contract. So what is that shadowy thing?
And on the bottom right-hand corner of page 32.. are those rocks? What are they? And why are they there? And, once again, what is Sensei trying to say?
Oh I do not like seeing Leo in that robe.
At the bottom center of page 34, Leo very deliberately steps on a white feather. And what in the world does this one mean? It just screams "symbol" to me.
Are you telling me that the people who we always thought were the bad guys just might be the good guys after all? Damn. You go Sensei.
I've never really considered Glen or the Baskervilles as villains, just victims of circumstance and someone else's choices, like everyone else in this series. But now, NOW. Mochizuki Jun-sensei, I bow to you.
"I don't like brandishing the word justice... THere's no justice nor evil, only the wills of people." Um, excuse me, but I believe this may be the theme of the whole damn series. OZ. YOU DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH I LOVE YOU. Sometimes I think, just for a fleeting moment, that I might love him even more than Gil. But then I banish that thought and huggle my imaginary Gilbert. But I do admire Oz to the ends of the earth, I'll tell you that. And this has only magnified it.
And then, on page 38, there is no longer a white feather beneath Leo's foot, but a black feather on the ground in front of his foot. ...Seeeennnnseeeeeeiiiii~ What do you meeeeaaaaannnnn???? I don't understaaaaaaaaaaand! D:
So Oz is part of what's making Alyss unstable? I wonder how, and all places this could go.
"By the Jabberwock's chain of conviction, I will judge you!" Everyone's got that? Okay, now check this out. OH. DANG. LEO. WHAT. ARE. YOU. PLANNING.
(It is Jabberwock, btw, not Jabberwocky. Jabberwocky was only the name of the poem, not the creature itself.)
Also, that was Zai, not Glen. I'm wondering if all of Glen's dark-winged birds possess the chain of conviction, if he was able to "bear" it too... But if that's the case, then Rufus and Gil also... (as well as either Sheryl or Shelly) have way more power than they realize at this point.
But what am I talking about? It's Rufus, of course he knows, what doesn't he know?!
Alright, this was too long. And messy. Fooling with bullet point is just too much work for me right now; and it's time consuming, so no.
I hope you all got through okay anyway! :D
So! Let's discuss!