Pandora Hearts Retrace LXI Discussion

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It's that time again guys! Let's discuss!

This chapter broke my heart, but what else is new?

Gah, every time we get a chapter that focuses on Vincent I end up loving him even more. Even when he's doing bad things! I can't help it. *hangs head in shame*

• Oh dear, now Gil just has that much more to worry about...

• We might as well start off on a light note, since this isn't a light-hearted chapter: lol at Vincent's face on pg6, when the Pandora agent poked him with his gun. Since ch60 ended with Vince in nearly that same pose, hand extended to Leo, this is a direct continuation. Not quite sure why it made me laugh, but I'm pretty sure it's the only laugh I'll get out of this chapter.

• I have to wonder why Vince left that one guy alive when he killed the rest. I know he didn't just overlook him. He specifically wanted everyone back at HQ to find out about his chain. What are your motives, Vince darling?

• Ah, so you killed Fred, did you? And all the rest? gommyommy , it seems our your theory about Vincent offing all other victims was correct.

• "Demios". "Terror". "Executioner." I still haven't seen any Demios in AiW or Looking Glass... Has anyone? Because I would like to know where Sensei pulled this from. Of course it may just be her own genius, but she's tied chains and characters to AiW throughout the entire series, why break the pattern now?

• "You still don't get it do you? How I managed to avoid being swallowed by the Abyss." Woah. Vince? What exactly do Demios, HD and Elliot have to do with your involvement in the Tragedy of Sabrie? And when exactly did you contract with this chain?

• Return of Zwei! And she looks so cute!... Wait... what? I don't like Zwei. Never mind. Probably because she looks like Echo right now. :/ But I wonder why Vince swapped her out. And I'm not sure if it was ever confirmed that Echo can use Doldum, since no one ever said so, and we've never seen her use it. Maybe Vince just needed people controlled, so he pulled out Zwei. ),: And, going back to last month's discussion, I still don't know if Echo is in on Vincent's actions. She wasn't in any of his flashbacks this chapter; she wasn't in this chapter at all. She's never around when he does anything vicious... She may not have a clue. But I'm also not sure if maybe she watches life from the inside similar to Oz/Jack? If that was the case, then she definitely knows. And so I guess Vincent's reasons for using good!girl for good deeds and bad!girl for bad deeds would just be the fact that Echo might rebel? ...I think I just had a conversation with myself that led around in a circle. *facepalm* Sometimes I need to write things out in order to understand them. XD That's why I love doing these discussions. :)

• Poor Leo can't even fathom why he would be the one to house Glen's soul. That being said, I do believe that both Glen and the other Baskervilles are chosen at or even before birth. I believe I've had this conversation before. But the thing about that is, Lily said that the Baskervilles were chosen by the Abyss, and, by extension, Alyss. Even though she said that they become Baskervilles when they receive the light, Lottie said that those chosen tend to warp the lives of those around them, and that had been happening since birth. So. But Alyss was born into this world at the same time that Alice was. And Alice was only a young girl at the time of the Tragedy. Certainly much younger than, say, Fang and Doug. And definitely much younger than Glen. So... unless Alice herself is a Baskerville, as someone (I can't remember who -- own up, smarticle one!) previously suggested.... No. That's the only way I can think of for everything to work together without any chinks in the reasoning. Unless someone else has an alternative idea?

• "Those eyes see a grain/whatever you wanna call it of golden light that the others cannot see." And the way you hold your hands, Vince, makes it seem like you want to cover it up... Or possibly take it from him. Not forming any theories yet simply based on one image, but let's not forget that Vincent Nightray ALWAYS has his own agenda. He does things HIS way. Just putting that out there.

• Woah, man. All up on him. Let's not talk about the super-squicky VinceLeo that just exploded on the kink meme... XD

• *gaspeth* ...C-Could it be...? That, so many chapters ago (lol, I think it was only 3) when I predicted that those bubbles signaled something Abyss-related... I was right...? WOAH. I've been saying that a lot about this chapter. Anyhow, so all this time, when Sensei showed us the Abyss-bubbles, we were simply seeing in Leo-vision. And that's what Lily meant in chapter 51 when she mentioned seeing golden particles of light.

• Also, that panel at the bottom of pg15 wins for being the most beautiful in this chapter. Right next to pages 44 and 47. Gahh, MochiJun-sensei has given us such a gorgeous manga. *sparkle eyes*

• ryoura! Your lights!Abyss theory is becoming more and more legit! So apparently Vincent was the one who planted those lies... or were they completely lies... and I assume Creeper got them from Duke Nightray then, and spread them around.

• So that child really was the original contractor. Okay. Funny how twice in a row, HD's contractor died before his seal had finished a rotation. Am I seeing a pattern? Maybe there's something special especially horrid about this chain?

• Of course he was killing for Gil. And targeting him makes so much sense. You poisoned him and then nursed him back to health? That's sick, twisted, crazy, wrong, really sweet, Vince. <3 See! I can't hate him! There's so much love behind his actions, I just can't! And I never thought I'd get to this point but, I starting to seriously admire him after this chapter.

• But on the top panel of pg31, Gil is staring at a dead body. With blood on his face. Do you see the hand in the bottom right corner? And I assume that the whiteness around it is supposed to be blood. Could it be that Gil really is in on Vince's actions? Well, he's in on it now... but I meant all along. Normally when Sensei uses that sort of background it is for a flashback... What does Gilby know...?

• pg34: Vincent... are you trying to clear Elly's good name?? <3 CDFEGRFDSERTGFDTYHJGYUKJHUKIJ NO! STOP!!

• Vince looks a bit taken aback on the 2nd panel of pg35. Because of Duke Nightray's claim to have saved him? Questioning his loyalty? Should he be loyal to this man? Interesting that this had any effect on him at all... But in the end, it's all about Gil. So that's that.

• "You did it for your own self interests!" 'It's like looking in a mirror, so disgusting.' Oh really? I think that Vincent's trying to keep Miranda's secret about who caused the Tragedy was quite selfish, and nothing to do with Gil whatsoever. But now I think he is seeking redemption.After all, he got veeery emotional in this chapter. He seems quite invested in these concepts of loyalty, love, family and selfishness...

• And he killed Duke Nightray because he was furious. Because of what he did. What he did reminded Vincent of himself. Which made him angry enough to kill the culprit. Who is just like himself. Vincent wants to die. How tortured. Poor thing. And then Elliot, the opposite of his father and brothers (including Vincent) was the one he admired. This scene with Elliot's last moments is the sweetest thing, I can't even tell you. Lol, I'm sure someone was absolutely disgusted. I just can't hate Vincent okay? How can anyone hate this child?

• And I suppose that changing the past to erase his existence was why he contracted with that chain. Because simply committing suicide would hurt Gil.

• Okay. Compare: middle panel on page 44, and this third panel from chapter 35. That panel on pg.44 reminded me of the one from chapter 35. Now that I look, I'm not sure if there's any connection, but I'd like to hear what you think about it.

• "Your very existence made someone close to you suffer." QUOTE. OF. THE. MONTH. Also, compare it to Oz's 'very existence being a sin'...

• "They really look like..." Hey now, don't end the chapter like that! They really look like what, Vincent? What?! *frustrated*

Okay! That's the end for this month!
GilOz! Where is it!? Sensei! Can't you ever give me what I want? D: