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[quote]Well, okay, but Regina loving people doesn't stop her from stabbing and killing them when it's the only way for her to achieve her plan. Which means, quite frankly, that her definition of love and mine are from completely different universes (and in my mind, murdering her father is what makes her irredeemable. You do not come back from killing someone you love because it was convenient). Rumpel, on the other hand, is only on a different planet from me, because again, no way could he ever, ever look Bae or Belle in the eyes and kill them. No way.
I also totally believe that, had Regina known Emma kissing Henry would revive him but also break the curse, she would've tried to stop Emma from kissing Henry. Sadly, with a tear in her eye, but she would've tried to prevent it.
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He could drop one in a vortex, though, leaving him, a child, alone in a new world. Besides, your statement was that she was devoid of all human feeling, and it was entirely wrong. I never said she didn't do horrible things. I also don't believe she would have killed Henry again, though I suppose it's not impossible being that either way she wasn't going to get a happy ending. She didn't kill her father because it was convenient, or she wouldn't have first chosen to kill her horse. It was wrong, but she didn't see herself as able to stop after going as far as she already had.
[quote]Well, yes, but pretty much after Stable Boy, all she ever felt was some variation on hate, annoyance, crankiness, and glee when her evil plans seemed to be working, so....
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No. There was the offer she made to Hansel and Gretel. Yes, again, nobody here is saying she never did anything evil, and no one here ever mentioned her being misunderstood, but she wanted to keep them and was disappointed at their rejection, and then there was how she took Snow White to Daniel's grave and her expression an d tone when she was talking about that. Also, hate, annoyance, crankiness, and glee are human emotions. She's not an inhuman other that personifies evil, whether or not the show will have her redeemed.
I'm unhappy about it, but I do have the feeling that she won't be, that she's staying in the antagonist role, and that realistically I don't see a way out for her unless she decides to just leave these people behind and actually succeeds in moving to another environment. She has nothing there, they don't have any reason to want to give her a chance, and getting out of long-term patterns is hard enough when people support you. But that's unlikely, because I think if she had so much trouble letting go that she'd kill her own father, she wouldn't now that she's lost even more. I won't be quite so unhappy if they at least don't redeem Rumplestiltskin either, because I don't want them to redeem the woobie male bad guy but not the woobie female bad guy. Also, personally, while in my rainbows and joy world I want everyone to heal and be happy, and I did feel bad when August wasn't his son, I'm really not that interested in Rumplestiltskin, while I am invested in Regina.
[quote]What I saw was her face light up with surprise and happiness with "You did it!" which I saw was in reference to the kid having his curse broken. [/quote]
That's what I saw. Surprise because she thought it was too late - the unpredictability of how the curse being a factor in that - and happiness because it wasn't.
[quote]Though I do believe he wants Belle and Bae, I tend to attribute his desire for power to his powerlessness before he became the Dark One. He doesn't ever want anyone to have power over him again. So he must be the most powerful. And he'll hurt/kill anyone (save his specials) that he has to to achieve that.[/quote]
This. I don't think Rumplestiltskin was forced to be evil because of the curse. He was portrayed as a powerless coward, and then he became intent on using his power to keep from being that again. I tend to think this is part of Regina's motivation too, not just revenge. Power was very important in her dynamic with Cora, who if I remember correctly told her it was what would give her happiness as the justification for her abuse. It's also important to note that while Regina did kill one of the people who was special to her, he seemed pretty passive while his wife was abusing Regina, when he and Cora were the primary power-having people in her life. Belle and Bae didn't - couldn't really - do anything like that to Rumplestiltskin, and they don't have power over him. I think Regina's determination to win and Rumplestiltskin's determination to be the most powerful guy around are similar and come from similar backgrounds of powerlessness.
[quote]Exactly. To me the first (of many more) steps in redemption is recognizing you've done something wrong, and the second step is having some remorse over it. Rumpel hasn't done either. Regina has shown that she has the capability to do both - not enough to stop her from going through with things anyway, but the spark of it is there, whereas Rumpel has shown no cpability for that at all.[/quote]
I could be missing something, but I remember that the only time he admitted to being morally defective it was with August when he thought he was Bae. I can't remember Regina outright admitting it, but she did say evil was made, not born, when she was talking to David about Mary Margaret's culpability, and I do think she referred to herself. Personally I see them both as evil people afraid of being powerless, I just worry about Regina's wellbeing more.