thanks, wikipedia!

[tiahanson]

after reading this i'm really excited about going and finding a churh to attend. there's something about trying to help people find their spiritual path, and that is what i need. if i am correct, (and tell me if i am wrong, sweetsexysadie), but it seems they use different scriptures, practices, methods that come from all sorts of world religions. i like this

Comments

[babylonica]

Please don't take this as an attack it's just my opinion and questions :D You've struck my interest on this one, lol. I like to learn.

It's roots might be christian but it is no where near christian, which you might or might not like. I don't know. What they do is called "idolotry" by christians because they make a God, or lifestyle to suit themselves, you know? Its convenient to have a god that wouldn't send them to hell. "My God wouldn't send me to hell"... well of course not because he's a figment of that persons imagination, and no one elses.

There's a verse in the bible (I think in the Gospel of John), where it's talking about not suing people; it's along the lines of dont sue because judges judge based on law where many issues are personal and spiritual and it'd be better to talk to a minister. Of course there are legitimate reasons to sue people, we can all recognize those. The point was that a secular judge's opinion is no better than any other secular than another secuclar persons because the truth is defined by their own self based on things they take in, and they form the truth to what they believe. Christians however see Gods word as abosolute truth (and form themselves to the truth) so that no one can (but does unfortunately) manipulate it because it's the solid word of God that any christian knows. it's not based on some judges and lawmakers in the governent that happen to be there that year, it's based on the law of the universe established by God. Murder will always be wrong in every case, etc. Then if a minister strays from the word of God, he's outa there.

Sounds like it'd be an interesting chruch to go to, I wonder if they have a solid foundation. If not, it has no meaning, you know? Only meaning to you, not to the world. But all you might be seeking is your own truth, not THE truth.

Did you know secularism is an established recognized religion?

I think what you want is more of a structure and moral foundation to live by, every human want's that.

I just have one question about this church, if they have worship services in protestant format, but don't necessarily recognize God, who are they worshiping?

[babylonica]

It's like every religion is about serving that individual, but christianity is the only religion where the "truth" is found outside themselves and the point is to serve God.

but people of every world view get lost and ends\ up getting caught up in the religion itself and not the meaning and point of it's belief system, and things get fucked up, and people use it to manipulate others. :(

[tiahanson]

we are all looking for our own personal truth. you think you know what THE real truth is, but you do not. you can only have faith, like everyone else. you are in no position to decide that one faith is more correct than another.

christianity is not the only faith thats point is to serve god. that is where you should do a little more research.

i don't view any of this as an attack, and don't take offense, but the way you're viewing all this as having no point or being strange or rediculous and not seeing how anyone could take that seriously, is precicely how i see christianity.

christianity was by far not the first religion ever. there are many faiths that predate and have outnumbered christianity in years that it's been practiced.

saying to others that christianity is the "right" way is arrogant and narrow minded, to say the very least.

[babylonica]

I deleted this comment cause it came out wrong, had to edit it.

I said everyone and I include myself in everyone. Dangit, no one ever gets it. See, I was saying that christians believe that the word of God is Gods absolute truth, not THE truth, not the truth that can be found within themself; because it varies from person to person. People can convince others that their way is right, but then they're just being self righteous and trying to give themself glory. It's GODS truth, seperate from us, a seperate foriegn entity almost, and we can chose to accept it or not. If not, we find our own truth.

OF COURSE it's narrowminded because there is no right or wrong way for us, but if we chose to follow God, we have to obey HIS truth, HIS rules, not OUR truth and OUR rules which are only right and legitimate for only that individual person.

[tiahanson]

how would things be if you were never taught a particular faith as a child and as an adult given a book on each religion and asked to pick which one you believed to be true?

to some extent, our beliefs are about US becuase we have to believe them, so they must suit us to a degree.

protestant faiths all sprung from king whats-his-face not being able to get a divorce through the catholic church. how's that for not basing things on HIS rules and HIS truth? so basically if you aren't catholic, and your christian, that's where your faith got it's start.

you can say that you're just expressing yourself and that you are misunderstood by other people, but i think it's in your approach. you come off extremely pushy and self righteous. it's good that you have strong beliefs, but ultimately we should all be comfortable admitting ignorance. none of us know FOR SURE.

[babylonica]

no i totally don't mean it like that. you're in an auto-defensive mode. if you go back and read it in a different tone or state of mind, you'll see how i mean it.

"how would things be if you were never taught a particular faith as a child and as an adult given a book on each religion and asked to pick which one you believed to be true?"

things would be as they are where everyone seeks their own truth and not Gods truth. The whole thing (as christians believe) is whether you are of the earth or of God.

i can't come off as pushy if i dont mean it like that, it's in the way your reading it, i promise :)

[babylonica]

i never meant that christianity was the right way. you're putting words in my mouth to make me seem self-righteous and you don't understand what i'm talking about :(

[tiahanson]

ok then, i don't have luxury of tone of voice.

let me just say this: i already know about christianity, so it's a moot point to infom me of the points you are informing me of.

at this point, being well aware that i already know, for you to inform me of more, would make you come off as trying to convince me, and that's where i stop being cool with it.

[babylonica]

damnit, this is dumb. this is completely dumb. i'm not trying to convince you i was trying to redeem myself because you always make me out to be a self-righteous pushy christian who hates people who have had abortion(s) and even made me wonder if you think i hate "niggers". NO, I love people, I listen, but you always twist my words, and I think you're so smart but can't be on a non-defensive mode with me so i can't have a good discussion with you, lol. it's disappointing.

[tiahanson]

i don't always make you out to be anything, faith. i tell you what i think about what i'm reading.

with your "niggers" comment it's very obvious that you're missing my point as well :) why dont you read it again and chew on it and realize it was simply an analogy, like any other.

you're probably misunderstanding me as much as i do you.

[babylonica]

yes perhaps, lol. happens a lot online.

i guess i'm assuming that you think I THINK that my way (which i dont even see as my way but Gods way) is THE right way when you say stuff like:

"saying to others that christianity is the "right" way is arrogant and narrow minded, to say the very least."

maybe you meant generally, i dunno ;)

[babylonica]

". you are in no position to decide that one faith is more correct than another." i agree. No one but God is in that position to decide whether what we believe is right or wrong based on his law and not ours.

I agree, and thats why christians believe it's important to chose to put their faith in the Lord, because people put their faith in all numbers of different ideas. We should respect others points of view, but to still share our stories and learn from one another; without being defensive.

[tiahanson]

"I think what you want is more of a structure and moral foundation to live by, every human want's that."

i already have that. it's not what i'm looking for. something for me to connect with SPIRITUALLY that doesnt sound as cockamamie as the christian god and jesus thing is what i'm looking for.

and believe me, i'm not uneducated on the subject, so i hope you don't think you can witness and i will learn, because it's not even about that. i grew up southern baptist. i grew up and decided i didn't believe what i'd been told all my life, and instead of sticking to it out of some form of obligation, i'd form my own independant thoughts and thats where i am.

i'm sure believing you're going to heaven gives you a lot more peace living with the struggles that you do than not believing would. and for that, i say good. christianity is working for you, buddhist works for friends of mine, and paganism works for other friends of mine. none of it is for any of us to judge.

you saying 'thats called "idolotry" by christians' has about as much meaning to me as "they are called "niggers" by the kkk" because what do i care what an organization i absolutely don't vibe with calls anything?

[babylonica]

"i'm sure believing you're going to heaven gives you a lot more peace living with the struggles that you do than not believing would"

its not about comfort, i mean, god is the ultimate judge and i dont know if i'm going to heaven or not. thats why i fear god. i get peace in knowing that i'm doing my best to do Gods will, and that i'm following his truth.

about the idolotry, i was just pointing out how i recognize that it's not christian :)