Yes or no?

May 29, 2014 11:10

What are your thoughts on the #yesallwomen campaign ( Read more... )

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heyfashion May 29 2014, 16:08:02 UTC
It's a movement with good intentions but I feel a lot of people are turning this into a men vs. women thing when harassment and sexual assault, regardless of gender or sexual preference, are what people need to spread awareness and educate others about.

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sushidog May 29 2014, 16:15:05 UTC
99% of sexual assaults are carried out by men, and 90% of the victims are women; which makes it quite hard to talk about it in an ungendered way; and in fact, I don't think we _should_ talk about it "regardless of gender or sexual preference", because gender and sexual preference play a very big part in it.
I agree that ideally it shouldn't be a men vs. women thing, but it's quite hard to see a way of addressing the issue face on, without soft-pedalling, which won't be seen that way.

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miss_almost May 29 2014, 17:07:28 UTC
IA with this 100%

im really sick of the "but what about the men????" comments when talking about sexual harassment and assault. the overwhelming majority of perpetrators are men. and i think pretending its 50/50 does a major disservice to women and derails the conversation.

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sushidog May 29 2014, 17:21:39 UTC
The thing that particularly annoys me is that the same guys who say "But not all men are like that! Why are you tarring us with the same brush? Be nice to meeeee!" are never the ones which are willing to actually stand _against_ the behaviour they say they're not responsible for, and indeed quite often they will actively defend it (boys will be boys, he doesn't know he's being creepy it's just social awkwardness, he thought she wanted it, men have natural desires, etc etc ad nauseam). It's almost as if what they actually mean is "Not all men are like that, although personally I kind of am, or at the very least if we're picking sides, I pick the side of the men who are like that".

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squidger May 29 2014, 18:17:05 UTC
Many men do not know what sexual assault and rape actually is. Many men don't understand that street harassment is harassment. When they've done surveys about rape and sexual assault, they've found that, if they don't use the actual words, a disturbing number of men. Willingly admit they've assaulted or raped women.

Campaigns like this work to actually educate men to maybe reconsider their actions, that what they do might actually be unwanted.

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sushidog May 29 2014, 18:22:52 UTC
Let's buy into the standard line... Males are violent.
Whose standard line is that? It's not mine, and I don't think it's most women's.

Why is it that we can causally toss off things like "99% of sexual assaults are carried out by men" and not wonder why?
Again, who is it that you think isn't thinking about this issue? I can absolutely assure you that most women deal with this, and think about it, a _lot_, and that we don't simply "casually toss off" the figures; we recognise that they are very very scary and very very worrying and very very personal.

Have we just causally accepted that all men are violent thugs, and that's just the way things are?
No, we haven't. Which is why a lot of feminists (including male allies) are working very hard to challenge the idea that "Boys will be boys", and to address concepts of male violence which are taught from early childhood.

Honestly, this is not a new idea that you've just come up with which no-one has ever thought of before. There's quite a good article about it here, if you're ( ... )

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sushidog May 29 2014, 18:59:48 UTC
..yet you just did. Funny that.
I mentioned the figures; I didn't do so thoughtlessly or casually. What do you think I should have added to what I was saying, to make it seem less "casual" to you?

Speaking to a former preschool teacher here... I know. I dealt with it on a constant basis for over a decade...
So then you know that actually, people _are_ questioning why, and have been for a long time, and that they're looking for ways of dealing with it, yes?

It is one of the few outlets that is actively perusing this idea...
It's one of the few _male_ outlets actively looking at this area; feminists have been talking about this for a long time, a lot.

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heyfashion May 29 2014, 21:11:11 UTC
I'm aware of the numbers, but that only accounts for those who come forward as being victims. So many just deal with it privately (or not at all) for so many reasons, as i'm sure you know. I'm not trying to denounce what the statistics say, but people should be educating each other about these crimes and prevention without boundaries because reported cases do not account for all crimes of this nature. Of course I think it should be known that statistically speaking, women are most often the victim but I do think it's just as important to bring awareness to all aspects of sexual harassment and misconduct.

Anyways, my original comment about people turning this into a man vs. woman thing, I meant the men that are taking it as a personal attack and getting pissy about it, and the women who are using it as a way to bash all men for everything they see wrong that they do. That kind of crap is just totally missing the point.

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sushidog May 29 2014, 22:52:58 UTC
I'm aware of the numbers, but that only accounts for those who come forward as being victims.
Well, sort of yeah; I mean, there are lots and lots of studies where a population is asked, confidentially/anonymously, about their experiences, and under those circumstances there's a much higher report rate, which allows us to make fairly good estimates about under-reporting rates. And in those studies, the proportion of men vs. women who are assaulted, and the proportion of male assailants to female, remain pretty much the same even though the numbers themselves change.

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