I was aware of the reality of most fans being female, but I didn't realise most people assumed everyone was female until I had to start telling people I wasn't. Which is a weird boundary, but it's there. I'm generally kind of an oblivious person. *shrug*
I often feel it crosses a line into exclusion, whether deliberate (I have seen people say they are not interested in interacting with anyone who is not female) or just through the assumption that people who aren't female don't exist here.
Exactly. I also am in favour of people feeling safe wherever they feel safe, and creating those spaces for themselves. I just feel that sometimes when one person creates their safe space, it makes that space unsafe for others. And that's not cool.
I don't know why this subject makes me uncomfortable. I enjoy the fandom as queer experience discussion, although I know people find it just as invalidating as the fandom as female space discussion
( ... )
To me a 'female space' is one where being female is required to take part. The definition of female can be up to interpretation, but it's necessary that participants identify as female to be included.
It's a hugely loaded term, absolutely. And that's my definition of "female space" too.
It would be an outright lie to say that my experience of these communities has been gender neutral.
I'm not looking for a gender neutral fandom experience, or for people to exclude gender from fandom entirely; I'm just a) complaining about things 'cause it's what I do, and b) saying that my gender is not the first, most important thing about me, and I really wish people would define my fandom experience by pretty much anything else (how about--my shitty feedback practices? Or how I've changed as a writer? Or my crumbling ethics wrt RPF? Or--ANYTHING?).
My involvement could be 100% 'Amy female' without changing the experience or 'space' from being overwhelmingly male.And I'm happy to be "BJ transguy" in an overwhelmingly female group. It's just when
( ... )
in all seriousness, though, i'm glad you wrote this. sometimes it's really hard to put into words the disappointment i feel when people say "it's a female space" like that's TRUFAX. what does that even mean?!
it's also hard, because i recognise that it's really, really good that there is a predominantly-women thing going on here, because people [women?] feel safe, ad because it's so different from the rest of the world. but at the same time, i wish people wouldn't put these boundaries up, because as soon as there are boundaries there are exclusions, and suddenly my involvement requires that i pass as female in order to be part of this imagined fandom. and i don't *want* to pass, but i also don't want to be the TOOL OF THE PATRIARCHY claiming some kind of *puke* reverse discrimination against teh menz omg!
the thing i really would love to see discussed is why people have such an investment in imagining fandom as a female (only?) space. what is it that people get out of it?
When the fanlib thing brought up the subject this summer, I read estimates on the male/female ratio of fandom-at-large. According to people I figured would know (can't remember who, exactly, but they were LJ aca-fen who seemed authoritative), it's about 85 percent female. Which, yes, skews us toward many interesting discussions on the female fan experience, women building communities, etc. However. To call fandom a female space is pretty much on par with calling America a "Christian country." (Thank you, John McCain. Not like I'd have voted for you in a long shot anyway, but way to disenfranchise me and my family as you pander your way through the election.) Anyway, not to rant or anything *g* but "female space" is a term that needs to be rethought, or contextualized when used, and would be even if there were a 99 percent majority.
Yay! for cards! I'll send it as soon as I find a place. Meanwhile, I have postcards and would love to send you one!
Anyway, not to rant or anything *g* but "female space" is a term that needs to be rethought, or contextualized when used, and would be even if there were a 99 percent majority.
This is what I'm saying, thank you. Splitting hairs FTW!
(Ahaha, John McCain. *smacks him and sends him to therapy*)
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I often feel it crosses a line into exclusion, whether deliberate (I have seen people say they are not interested in interacting with anyone who is not female) or just through the assumption that people who aren't female don't exist here.
Exactly. I also am in favour of people feeling safe wherever they feel safe, and creating those spaces for themselves. I just feel that sometimes when one person creates their safe space, it makes that space unsafe for others. And that's not cool.
Can I take sensible/coherence lessons from you?
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It's a hugely loaded term, absolutely. And that's my definition of "female space" too.
It would be an outright lie to say that my experience of these communities has been gender neutral.
I'm not looking for a gender neutral fandom experience, or for people to exclude gender from fandom entirely; I'm just a) complaining about things 'cause it's what I do, and b) saying that my gender is not the first, most important thing about me, and I really wish people would define my fandom experience by pretty much anything else (how about--my shitty feedback practices? Or how I've changed as a writer? Or my crumbling ethics wrt RPF? Or--ANYTHING?).
My involvement could be 100% 'Amy female' without changing the experience or 'space' from being overwhelmingly male.And I'm happy to be "BJ transguy" in an overwhelmingly female group. It's just when ( ... )
Reply
(Is there a Barbie fandom to go with it? No. Please don't.)
Given that I am in a current state of massive head trauma, I am declaring my LJ a Scared Female Space.
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(Well, you know what they say about the internets.)
Scared Female Space.
Hey! My female parts are often scared! I totes belong in your LJ!
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OH COME ON! LET'S HAVE ONE!!!
*bounces merrily*
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JEEZ YOU'RE RUINING THE REVOLUTION.
:D
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in all seriousness, though, i'm glad you wrote this. sometimes it's really hard to put into words the disappointment i feel when people say "it's a female space" like that's TRUFAX. what does that even mean?!
it's also hard, because i recognise that it's really, really good that there is a predominantly-women thing going on here, because people [women?] feel safe, ad because it's so different from the rest of the world. but at the same time, i wish people wouldn't put these boundaries up, because as soon as there are boundaries there are exclusions, and suddenly my involvement requires that i pass as female in order to be part of this imagined fandom. and i don't *want* to pass, but i also don't want to be the TOOL OF THE PATRIARCHY claiming some kind of *puke* reverse discrimination against teh menz omg!
the thing i really would love to see discussed is why people have such an investment in imagining fandom as a female (only?) space. what is it that people get out of it?
Reply
Yay! for cards! I'll send it as soon as I find a place. Meanwhile, I have postcards and would love to send you one!
Reply
This is what I'm saying, thank you. Splitting hairs FTW!
(Ahaha, John McCain. *smacks him and sends him to therapy*)
Reply
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