I don't know why this subject makes me uncomfortable. I enjoy the fandom as queer experience discussion, although I know people find it just as invalidating as the fandom as female space discussion.
I think 'female space' is a loaded term, and people use it to describe two different things. To me a 'female space' is one where being female is required to take part. The definition of female can be up to interpretation, but it's necessary that participants identify as female to be included.
Obviously, the 'female space' people refer to when speaking about fandom is different. All my post lotr fandom experience has been overwhelmingly female. It would be an outright lie to say that my experience of these communities has been gender neutral.
The best way I can explain it is that my comic fandom and video gamer experience has been male oriented in the same way that my nsync, lotr, and band fandom has been female oriented. I never thought of these communities as 'male space' as I felt I belonged as a female. I may have been assumed to be male until I told people otherwise, but I felt my contribution was valid without any genderfuckery to make it fit. My involvement could be 100% 'Amy female' without changing the experience or 'space' from being overwhelmingly male.
Does that make sense? I know this isn't terribly coherent, and it probably boils down to a having my cake and eating it too "I don't agree, but I don't want you to be sad!"
Also, I know I have the habit of defaulting all fandom participants to female. I'm trying to break out of it. If I ever slip up and refer to you as she (my first imaginary 'you' was connected to your old user name more than fandom default) by all means verbally bitch slap me out of it.
To me a 'female space' is one where being female is required to take part. The definition of female can be up to interpretation, but it's necessary that participants identify as female to be included.
It's a hugely loaded term, absolutely. And that's my definition of "female space" too.
It would be an outright lie to say that my experience of these communities has been gender neutral.
I'm not looking for a gender neutral fandom experience, or for people to exclude gender from fandom entirely; I'm just a) complaining about things 'cause it's what I do, and b) saying that my gender is not the first, most important thing about me, and I really wish people would define my fandom experience by pretty much anything else (how about--my shitty feedback practices? Or how I've changed as a writer? Or my crumbling ethics wrt RPF? Or--ANYTHING?).
My involvement could be 100% 'Amy female' without changing the experience or 'space' from being overwhelmingly male.
And I'm happy to be "BJ transguy" in an overwhelmingly female group. It's just when people start slapping official-looking labels on things ("community of women," "female space," "women's whatever") that it starts to make me really uncomfortable. I'm okay with being a person in a group of people who are mostly different from me, but if you start defining that group of people based on the majority of its members, you're leaving people out, and in this case, that people is me.
My brother from a different mother hangs largely with a leatherdyke (and transguy entourage) crowd these days. I'm really happy to hang out with these folks too. They are pretty awesome. But if an event is officially billed "women only" or "women and transfolks," I'm not cool with being there, regardless of how much I like the people or how much I want to sleep with them. 'Cause I resent being told that transwomen are female enough to be included in a female space, but transguys are not male enough to be excluded. I resent being told that if I'd been born in the body I wish I had, I would not be welcome among people I consider friends and family. My body is really the second or third least important thing about me; it should not grant me access to or bar me from any space.
Um. Anyway.
Does that make sense? I know this isn't terribly coherent, and it probably boils down to a having my cake and eating it too "I don't agree, but I don't want you to be sad!"
You make plenty of sense, and I am so totally guilty of eating my precious cake too. I appreciate your waffling on my behalf ;)
(my first imaginary 'you' was connected to your old user name more than fandom default)
Yeah, I'm sure that's why I've had most of my coming out-related problems. Sigh. It was funny at the time? And accurate?
I'm still learning how to correct people I like on this issue. Sometimes I'm too bitchy about it, sometimes I'm too fuzzy. Probably I should type HE HIM HIS all over places with the wrong pronouns. Though that's still kind of bitchy. WHATEVER LANGUAGE.
I think 'female space' is a loaded term, and people use it to describe two different things. To me a 'female space' is one where being female is required to take part. The definition of female can be up to interpretation, but it's necessary that participants identify as female to be included.
Obviously, the 'female space' people refer to when speaking about fandom is different. All my post lotr fandom experience has been overwhelmingly female. It would be an outright lie to say that my experience of these communities has been gender neutral.
The best way I can explain it is that my comic fandom and video gamer experience has been male oriented in the same way that my nsync, lotr, and band fandom has been female oriented. I never thought of these communities as 'male space' as I felt I belonged as a female. I may have been assumed to be male until I told people otherwise, but I felt my contribution was valid without any genderfuckery to make it fit. My involvement could be 100% 'Amy female' without changing the experience or 'space' from being overwhelmingly male.
Does that make sense? I know this isn't terribly coherent, and it probably boils down to a having my cake and eating it too "I don't agree, but I don't want you to be sad!"
Also, I know I have the habit of defaulting all fandom participants to female. I'm trying to break out of it. If I ever slip up and refer to you as she (my first imaginary 'you' was connected to your old user name more than fandom default) by all means verbally bitch slap me out of it.
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It's a hugely loaded term, absolutely. And that's my definition of "female space" too.
It would be an outright lie to say that my experience of these communities has been gender neutral.
I'm not looking for a gender neutral fandom experience, or for people to exclude gender from fandom entirely; I'm just a) complaining about things 'cause it's what I do, and b) saying that my gender is not the first, most important thing about me, and I really wish people would define my fandom experience by pretty much anything else (how about--my shitty feedback practices? Or how I've changed as a writer? Or my crumbling ethics wrt RPF? Or--ANYTHING?).
My involvement could be 100% 'Amy female' without changing the experience or 'space' from being overwhelmingly male.
And I'm happy to be "BJ transguy" in an overwhelmingly female group. It's just when people start slapping official-looking labels on things ("community of women," "female space," "women's whatever") that it starts to make me really uncomfortable. I'm okay with being a person in a group of people who are mostly different from me, but if you start defining that group of people based on the majority of its members, you're leaving people out, and in this case, that people is me.
My brother from a different mother hangs largely with a leatherdyke (and transguy entourage) crowd these days. I'm really happy to hang out with these folks too. They are pretty awesome. But if an event is officially billed "women only" or "women and transfolks," I'm not cool with being there, regardless of how much I like the people or how much I want to sleep with them. 'Cause I resent being told that transwomen are female enough to be included in a female space, but transguys are not male enough to be excluded. I resent being told that if I'd been born in the body I wish I had, I would not be welcome among people I consider friends and family. My body is really the second or third least important thing about me; it should not grant me access to or bar me from any space.
Um. Anyway.
Does that make sense? I know this isn't terribly coherent, and it probably boils down to a having my cake and eating it too "I don't agree, but I don't want you to be sad!"
You make plenty of sense, and I am so totally guilty of eating my precious cake too. I appreciate your waffling on my behalf ;)
(my first imaginary 'you' was connected to your old user name more than fandom default)
Yeah, I'm sure that's why I've had most of my coming out-related problems. Sigh. It was funny at the time? And accurate?
I'm still learning how to correct people I like on this issue. Sometimes I'm too bitchy about it, sometimes I'm too fuzzy. Probably I should type HE HIM HIS all over places with the wrong pronouns. Though that's still kind of bitchy. WHATEVER LANGUAGE.
Reply
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