Q3 GDP Comes in at +2.5%, so Blue Chip Economists & MSM Declare Recession Scare Over!
Yes, they all have as firm a grip on reality as ever:
Economic Times
US economists boost 2008 GDP forecast
-Blue Chip Agencies
Sep 10, 2008
WASHINGTON: A sharp upward revision in U.S. gross domestic product for the second quarter of 2008 prompted economists to ratchet up their forecasts for growth for the whole year, a survey released on Wednesday showed. The closely watched Blue Chip Economic Indicators survey showed the consensus forecast in September for GDP growth rose to 1.8 percent from 1.6 percent in August.
The September forecast for 2009 remains unchanged at 1.5 percent from August and after falling for seven consecutive months, results of the survey conducted Sept. 6-7 showed. The Commerce Department said in late August its preliminary estimate of GDP showed the economy growing by 3.3 percent in the second quarter, much faster than first thought. The month before it originally said GDP had expanded at a 1.9 percent rate in the quarter.
However, previous support from strong exports and consumer spending aided by government stimulus checks will diminish and instead become a drag on growth in the second half of the year, the survey said. Exports will continue to aid GDP over the next two quarters, but at a reduced rate due to markedly slower economic growth abroad, a rebounding U.S. dollar and high transportation costs, the economists said in the survey.
Growth will slip to 1.0 percent in the third quarter from 1.2 percent forecast in August and to a meager 0.2 percent in the fourth quarter from 0.3 percent forecast in August. Growth will slowly pick up speed through 2009, starting with 1.1 percent growth forecast for the first quarter and ending the year with 2.7 percent growth in the fourth quarter, unchanged from the August predictions.
Wall Street Journal
Economists React: ‘Where Are the Recession Calls Now?’
October 28, 2011
Economists and others weigh in on the 2.5% growth in GDP at a seasonally adjusted annual rate.
-Broad based gains indeed with consumer spending, business investment, structures and residential investment up… Modest growth, no recession, still a slow paced recovery but recovery nonetheless. -John Silvia, Wells Fargo
- Where are the recession calls now? In the middle of the third quarter, there were cries that growth was stalling and the economy was slipping into recession. It turns out that (on the first go at adding up the numbers) growth was 2.5%. More importantly, the details of the report were stronger. -RDQ Economics
-We see a much stronger print from the U.S. consumer, with personal consumption rising 2.4% contributing 1.7 percentage point to GDP. Non residential investment remains strong at 1.5 percentage point with equipment and software spending adding the most since Q2-2010 at 1.20 percentage point. The change in inventories drags 1.08 percentage point on growth, while net exports provide somewhat less of a boost than was broadly expected to see at 0.22 percentage point. Government spending is flat, with defense spending adding 0.26 percentage point continuing to reverse the Q1 decline of -0.74 percentage point. State and local governments continue to cut back… While the components are better than expected, and the drag on growth from inventories is particularly noteable and likely to be reversed, we would look for more momentum from business investment and consumer spending before getting too carried away. -David Semmens, Standard Chartered Bank
-Several categories boosted GDP in the quarter but we must highlight the improvement in spending on services. Spending on this category rose by 3.0% and is the largest gain since the middle of 2006. This is not unimportant as spending on services accounts for 65% of all personal consumption. As its been weak in the recovery, GDP growth has been limited. What also should be noted about GDP is that while growth has been sluggish, and the consumer is partially to blame, growth in personal consumption nine quarters after the recession ended is about 5.1%. That is slower that virtually every recovery in the last near fifty years but is not that far behind the last recovery. -Dan Greenhaus, BTIG LLC
-Looking ahead to the fourth quarter there are several reasons for encouragement. First, the rebound in consumption wasn’t an auto story (indeed, real auto consumption declined modestly) but rather reflected strength in the more heavily weighted and less volatile services component. A boost from autos and stronger real incomes should support a further solid (if unspectacular) increase in real consumer spending in the fourth quarter. Second, strong profit and cash levels in the corporate sector should underpin further gains in equipment and software investment. Third, we would take the decline in inventory accumulation as a sign that firms responded quickly to the softness in domestic demand in the first half and is unlikely to be repeated in the fourth quarter. -Peter Newland, Barclays Capital...
StreetTalkLive.com
Recession Still Likely Despite Bump In GDP
Posted by Lance Roberts on Friday, 28 October 2011 13:34
Consumers Gone Wild! I have this image in my head of shoppers running about frantically over the last quarter shelling out dollars at everything that isn't nailed down to the floor. That was the general consensus yesterday after the GDP report came out showing a lift from 1.3% to 2.5% primarily on the back of the consumer as shown in the chart. However, the real question is where did the money come from?
If we dig down into both the GDP release yesterday and the Personal Income and Consumption report today we find several very disturbing trends that are becoming much more dominate. However, before we get into that let me just provide you with a quick reminder that the first estimate of GDP released by the Bureau of Economic Analysis is tied closely to the consensus estimate of economists as there is incomplete information about the various subcomponents to make a more accurate estimate. Therefore, it should really come as no big surprise given the shocks that hit the economy from the debt downgrade, political infighting over the debt ceiling and the Eurozone crisis that the release was EXACTLY in line with the consensus estimate of 2.5% growth yesterday. The reason I point this out is that it is VERY rare that the consensus is EVER spot on to the first decimal point with the release. I find this very suspect.
Of course, the release was immediately met with the sounding stampede of analysts and media mavens throwing in the towel on any recessionary calls they might have had and assuming that all is well in world. Unfortunately, these are also the same ones that generally have been wrong when there are upticks in GDP during the initial phases of moving into a recession.
We pointed this out yesterday in our post on the GDP release with this table. The same analysts and economists that are throwing in the towel today on the recession are the same ones that threw in the towel on the uptick in economic growth in the 2nd Quarter of 2007 when growth was 2.9% annualized just before the slide into the biggest recession since the "Great Depression".
However, the issue that we want to focus on today is not that businesses are selling down inventories which is the opposite of what we have seen since the bottom of the last recession; but what happened with consumption and where the spending spree came from. If we subtract out PCE from the last report GDP growth came in at a very tepid 1.3% which is unchanged from the previous quarter.
If we dig behind the details of the PCE (Personal Consumption Expenditures) we find that health care and utilities drove consumer spending last quarter reiterating our recent post on consumer "frugality" as they are spending on necessities rather than luxuries. Outside these two key area s consumer spending was fairly stagnant and GDP growth was only 1.5%.
Now things are starting to make a little more sense. This is also jives with the recent reports on consumer confidence which has shrunk to historically low levels. When food and energy are already consuming more than 22% of wages and salaries things are tough. Now, utilities and medical bills are eating away at the balance. No wonder consumers still say that the economy never left a recession to begin with because for them it hasn't.
This becomes even more apparent when you realize that real incomes are declining as well. With personal incomes, and particularly disposable personal incomes, deflating on a year-over-year basis, combined with rising food and energy prices, the reality of "stagflation" becomes all too clear for many Americans. In the recent reports every discernible measure of real disposable incomes were negative. Considering that nearly 1 in 5 Americans are unemployed, underemployed or simply not counted, these huddled masses are dependent on some form of government assistance which includes those 45 million some odd poor soles utilizing food stamps. How surprising is it really that nearly 25% of personal incomes are comprised of some form of Government assistance.
If we exclude Government transfers in the recent report we will find that real incomes declined 0.6% on an annualized basis and is the first decline since the bottom of the recession in 2009. This is important because personal incomes are one of the four indicators used by the NBER (National Bureau of Economic Research) in calculating beginning and ending dates of economic cycles. It is a fair bet that the decline in personal incomes will soon be followed by the rest of the indicators as well.
Save Less Spend More
However, even with all of these data points we still haven't said where the spending came from. We know incomes declined which means that less money was coming into the household to meet spending requirements. We now know that the majority of the funds were spent on food, utilities and healthcare and not much anywhere else. So, if you have less money coming in and more money going out there are only two places with which to obtain more funds - credit and savings. With consumer credit lines being slashed by banks and the consumer in the process of deleveraging their balance sheet at home it is not surprising that we have see a massive draw down in personal savings.
The latest report shows that the personal saving rate in the U.S. has declined from 5.3% in June to a mere 3.6% in September. This is a massive 32% drawdown of personal savings. This is particularly discouraging for those economists betting on a "no recession" call as with incomes falling the drawdown on savings can only go on for so long before the economy locks up. Without the subsequent support of housing "ATM's", credit lines and other forms of credit to fill the gap between incomes and the requirements of living the economy is going to be hard pressed to stay out of a recessionary spat.
That Was So Last Quarter
Of course, everything that we have talked about so far is what has happened over the last quarter. As we look at the question of whether there is a recession in our future or not seems little changed. While economists are quick to jump on the GDP report, which by the way has lots of issues with the way that the data is assembled, let us not forget that there are a variety of other indicators that are telling us more about the economy during that same period. Consumption makes up 70% of the economy and therefore this spending spree should be showing up in other areas of the economy from manufacturing and production to service. The problem is that it really isn't.
Our STA Economic Composite indicator combines the largest Fed manufacturing regions, the Chicago Fed National Activity Index (which is a composite of 85 indicators in and of itself) along with NFIB Small Business Survey, Leading Economic Indicators and others to get a broad overview of the strength of the underlying economy. When the index falls below 30 (dotted red line), currently at 27.5, the economy is usually entering into or already well into a recessionary phase. Therefore, unless something dramatically changes in the coming couple of months, the composite index is already telling us that the bump we saw in PCE in the last quarter didn't make it to areas of the economy that will keep it out of a recession. As such, we will likely see a retrenchment of consumer spending in the coming months and continued weakness in the economy.
This gap between incomes and spending is what has us feeling so uneasy about the current situation as it has rarely been this wide outside of a recession. Setting aside the massive market rally based on potential hope that Europe will somehow be saved from the horrors of a Greek default; the reality is that soon investors will have to pay homage to weak economic environment at hand. If consumer incomes don't start to recover soon, and there is little evidence that they will, there is little that can done to push economic growth higher without further intervention by the Federal Reserve. Maybe this why they have already started throwing about the words "additional asset purchases" more commonly known as "QE".
For us our best guess remains that the economy will be in a recession in early 2012 without further intervention from the Fed which, at this point, would not surprise us at all. However, even that may not be enough to stave off the decline.
Economic Times
US economists boost 2008 GDP forecast
-Blue Chip Agencies
Sep 10, 2008
WASHINGTON: A sharp upward revision in U.S. gross domestic product for the second quarter of 2008 prompted economists to ratchet up their forecasts for growth for the whole year, a survey released on Wednesday showed. The closely watched Blue Chip Economic Indicators survey showed the consensus forecast in September for GDP growth rose to 1.8 percent from 1.6 percent in August.
The September forecast for 2009 remains unchanged at 1.5 percent from August and after falling for seven consecutive months, results of the survey conducted Sept. 6-7 showed. The Commerce Department said in late August its preliminary estimate of GDP showed the economy growing by 3.3 percent in the second quarter, much faster than first thought. The month before it originally said GDP had expanded at a 1.9 percent rate in the quarter.
However, previous support from strong exports and consumer spending aided by government stimulus checks will diminish and instead become a drag on growth in the second half of the year, the survey said. Exports will continue to aid GDP over the next two quarters, but at a reduced rate due to markedly slower economic growth abroad, a rebounding U.S. dollar and high transportation costs, the economists said in the survey.
Growth will slip to 1.0 percent in the third quarter from 1.2 percent forecast in August and to a meager 0.2 percent in the fourth quarter from 0.3 percent forecast in August. Growth will slowly pick up speed through 2009, starting with 1.1 percent growth forecast for the first quarter and ending the year with 2.7 percent growth in the fourth quarter, unchanged from the August predictions.
Wall Street Journal
Economists React: ‘Where Are the Recession Calls Now?’
October 28, 2011
Economists and others weigh in on the 2.5% growth in GDP at a seasonally adjusted annual rate.
-Broad based gains indeed with consumer spending, business investment, structures and residential investment up… Modest growth, no recession, still a slow paced recovery but recovery nonetheless. -John Silvia, Wells Fargo
- Where are the recession calls now? In the middle of the third quarter, there were cries that growth was stalling and the economy was slipping into recession. It turns out that (on the first go at adding up the numbers) growth was 2.5%. More importantly, the details of the report were stronger. -RDQ Economics
-We see a much stronger print from the U.S. consumer, with personal consumption rising 2.4% contributing 1.7 percentage point to GDP. Non residential investment remains strong at 1.5 percentage point with equipment and software spending adding the most since Q2-2010 at 1.20 percentage point. The change in inventories drags 1.08 percentage point on growth, while net exports provide somewhat less of a boost than was broadly expected to see at 0.22 percentage point. Government spending is flat, with defense spending adding 0.26 percentage point continuing to reverse the Q1 decline of -0.74 percentage point. State and local governments continue to cut back… While the components are better than expected, and the drag on growth from inventories is particularly noteable and likely to be reversed, we would look for more momentum from business investment and consumer spending before getting too carried away. -David Semmens, Standard Chartered Bank
-Several categories boosted GDP in the quarter but we must highlight the improvement in spending on services. Spending on this category rose by 3.0% and is the largest gain since the middle of 2006. This is not unimportant as spending on services accounts for 65% of all personal consumption. As its been weak in the recovery, GDP growth has been limited. What also should be noted about GDP is that while growth has been sluggish, and the consumer is partially to blame, growth in personal consumption nine quarters after the recession ended is about 5.1%. That is slower that virtually every recovery in the last near fifty years but is not that far behind the last recovery. -Dan Greenhaus, BTIG LLC
-Looking ahead to the fourth quarter there are several reasons for encouragement. First, the rebound in consumption wasn’t an auto story (indeed, real auto consumption declined modestly) but rather reflected strength in the more heavily weighted and less volatile services component. A boost from autos and stronger real incomes should support a further solid (if unspectacular) increase in real consumer spending in the fourth quarter. Second, strong profit and cash levels in the corporate sector should underpin further gains in equipment and software investment. Third, we would take the decline in inventory accumulation as a sign that firms responded quickly to the softness in domestic demand in the first half and is unlikely to be repeated in the fourth quarter. -Peter Newland, Barclays Capital...
StreetTalkLive.com
Recession Still Likely Despite Bump In GDP
Posted by Lance Roberts on Friday, 28 October 2011 13:34
Consumers Gone Wild! I have this image in my head of shoppers running about frantically over the last quarter shelling out dollars at everything that isn't nailed down to the floor. That was the general consensus yesterday after the GDP report came out showing a lift from 1.3% to 2.5% primarily on the back of the consumer as shown in the chart. However, the real question is where did the money come from?
If we dig down into both the GDP release yesterday and the Personal Income and Consumption report today we find several very disturbing trends that are becoming much more dominate. However, before we get into that let me just provide you with a quick reminder that the first estimate of GDP released by the Bureau of Economic Analysis is tied closely to the consensus estimate of economists as there is incomplete information about the various subcomponents to make a more accurate estimate. Therefore, it should really come as no big surprise given the shocks that hit the economy from the debt downgrade, political infighting over the debt ceiling and the Eurozone crisis that the release was EXACTLY in line with the consensus estimate of 2.5% growth yesterday. The reason I point this out is that it is VERY rare that the consensus is EVER spot on to the first decimal point with the release. I find this very suspect.
Of course, the release was immediately met with the sounding stampede of analysts and media mavens throwing in the towel on any recessionary calls they might have had and assuming that all is well in world. Unfortunately, these are also the same ones that generally have been wrong when there are upticks in GDP during the initial phases of moving into a recession.
We pointed this out yesterday in our post on the GDP release with this table. The same analysts and economists that are throwing in the towel today on the recession are the same ones that threw in the towel on the uptick in economic growth in the 2nd Quarter of 2007 when growth was 2.9% annualized just before the slide into the biggest recession since the "Great Depression".
However, the issue that we want to focus on today is not that businesses are selling down inventories which is the opposite of what we have seen since the bottom of the last recession; but what happened with consumption and where the spending spree came from. If we subtract out PCE from the last report GDP growth came in at a very tepid 1.3% which is unchanged from the previous quarter.
If we dig behind the details of the PCE (Personal Consumption Expenditures) we find that health care and utilities drove consumer spending last quarter reiterating our recent post on consumer "frugality" as they are spending on necessities rather than luxuries. Outside these two key area s consumer spending was fairly stagnant and GDP growth was only 1.5%.
Now things are starting to make a little more sense. This is also jives with the recent reports on consumer confidence which has shrunk to historically low levels. When food and energy are already consuming more than 22% of wages and salaries things are tough. Now, utilities and medical bills are eating away at the balance. No wonder consumers still say that the economy never left a recession to begin with because for them it hasn't.
This becomes even more apparent when you realize that real incomes are declining as well. With personal incomes, and particularly disposable personal incomes, deflating on a year-over-year basis, combined with rising food and energy prices, the reality of "stagflation" becomes all too clear for many Americans. In the recent reports every discernible measure of real disposable incomes were negative. Considering that nearly 1 in 5 Americans are unemployed, underemployed or simply not counted, these huddled masses are dependent on some form of government assistance which includes those 45 million some odd poor soles utilizing food stamps. How surprising is it really that nearly 25% of personal incomes are comprised of some form of Government assistance.
If we exclude Government transfers in the recent report we will find that real incomes declined 0.6% on an annualized basis and is the first decline since the bottom of the recession in 2009. This is important because personal incomes are one of the four indicators used by the NBER (National Bureau of Economic Research) in calculating beginning and ending dates of economic cycles. It is a fair bet that the decline in personal incomes will soon be followed by the rest of the indicators as well.
Save Less Spend More
However, even with all of these data points we still haven't said where the spending came from. We know incomes declined which means that less money was coming into the household to meet spending requirements. We now know that the majority of the funds were spent on food, utilities and healthcare and not much anywhere else. So, if you have less money coming in and more money going out there are only two places with which to obtain more funds - credit and savings. With consumer credit lines being slashed by banks and the consumer in the process of deleveraging their balance sheet at home it is not surprising that we have see a massive draw down in personal savings.
The latest report shows that the personal saving rate in the U.S. has declined from 5.3% in June to a mere 3.6% in September. This is a massive 32% drawdown of personal savings. This is particularly discouraging for those economists betting on a "no recession" call as with incomes falling the drawdown on savings can only go on for so long before the economy locks up. Without the subsequent support of housing "ATM's", credit lines and other forms of credit to fill the gap between incomes and the requirements of living the economy is going to be hard pressed to stay out of a recessionary spat.
That Was So Last Quarter
Of course, everything that we have talked about so far is what has happened over the last quarter. As we look at the question of whether there is a recession in our future or not seems little changed. While economists are quick to jump on the GDP report, which by the way has lots of issues with the way that the data is assembled, let us not forget that there are a variety of other indicators that are telling us more about the economy during that same period. Consumption makes up 70% of the economy and therefore this spending spree should be showing up in other areas of the economy from manufacturing and production to service. The problem is that it really isn't.
Our STA Economic Composite indicator combines the largest Fed manufacturing regions, the Chicago Fed National Activity Index (which is a composite of 85 indicators in and of itself) along with NFIB Small Business Survey, Leading Economic Indicators and others to get a broad overview of the strength of the underlying economy. When the index falls below 30 (dotted red line), currently at 27.5, the economy is usually entering into or already well into a recessionary phase. Therefore, unless something dramatically changes in the coming couple of months, the composite index is already telling us that the bump we saw in PCE in the last quarter didn't make it to areas of the economy that will keep it out of a recession. As such, we will likely see a retrenchment of consumer spending in the coming months and continued weakness in the economy.
This gap between incomes and spending is what has us feeling so uneasy about the current situation as it has rarely been this wide outside of a recession. Setting aside the massive market rally based on potential hope that Europe will somehow be saved from the horrors of a Greek default; the reality is that soon investors will have to pay homage to weak economic environment at hand. If consumer incomes don't start to recover soon, and there is little evidence that they will, there is little that can done to push economic growth higher without further intervention by the Federal Reserve. Maybe this why they have already started throwing about the words "additional asset purchases" more commonly known as "QE".
For us our best guess remains that the economy will be in a recession in early 2012 without further intervention from the Fed which, at this point, would not surprise us at all. However, even that may not be enough to stave off the decline.