SO THEN

[salsburysteakjr]

Okay. Please, I would like ONLY THOSE who know factually what I'm going to ask. Even if the factual answer is, "nobody can be 100% sure", that is fine. Gossip seems to be the flood drowning most of any truth to either sides angle on the story, so please lets have us a very intellectual conversation full of what we DO know and nothing more

Comments

[salsburysteakjr]

See I am not so 100% convinced despite all the evidence to prove so, simply for all those people claiming to have spent so much intimate time with JT, people like the lead singer of Garbage, who as far as I can tell has not much to gain from lying about it. Even Tom Waits seems to think he exists. Tom's no fool. Did he meet the phony JT? I just don't know. To top it off, they're STILL going along pretending he DOES exist, because recently JT showed up at a book place reading parts of Harold's End.

As far as I know, the only evidence proclaiming JT is not a real literal person comes from that New York Times article. I don't know if I exactly trust the people who were interviewed and go along with the claim the article makes. I just don't know. Because I don't know, I WANT TO KNOW, and its getting me a little nutty trying to determine what the hell to believe.

My big problem is that I truly want JT Leroy to be a real person. If I didn't care either way maybe I could be objective about it. But so many of those who demand it's a false identity seem to be opposed to Leroy as a writer too, that they have something against the talent contained within the novels, and it is suspect, for goddamn it Heart is Deceitful and Sarah and Howard's End are GOOD BOOKS. Damn fine reads.

I just don't know. Blah.

[_cherryvanilla_]

Well, I guess everyone has a different perspective on it. I haven't read much about it in the last few months so I don't know what Shirley Manson or Tom Waits are saying (if they're saying anything at all). I'm shocked to hear that JT turned up for a reading - when was this?

I'm totally convinced that Laura wrote the books, there's no doubt in my mind. Final proof for me was when people who were certainly NOT opposed to JT as a writer - people who worked for him, supported him, spent a lot of time with him, believed in "him" even when bombarded with evidence to the contrary - eventually accepted that Laura wrote the books. They knew Laura too and stuck up for her when the shit hit the fan, so it's not as if they have anything to gain from lying either. I just don't think anyone can deny that JT Leroy is a character any longer.

The worth of the books, as you say, is another issue. I still stand by their worth, regardless of their author.

[salsburysteakjr]

Shirley and Tom are two of the many people who have spoken out in defense of his existance. I poked around online for a day just hunting whatever I could down, a lot of the quotes come, if you'd like to just look from one source, the journal Leroy has kept for the last few years online. It has links to official quotes from a number of celebrities and others who say he's slept on their couch, eaten their food, watched their tv, etc.

If you type in JT Leroy on google and hunt down images, you'll find one of him beside Asia, giving a reading from Harold's End.

As of right now even if you are correct and he is a fictional creation, I think "I just don't think anyone can deny that JT Leroy is a character any longer." is a little brash to be saying so bluntly when the evidence on either side isn't 100% conclusive. I'd say there are so few FACTS that it's still really a matter of opinion.

[_cherryvanilla_]

Well, as I said, everyone has their own perspective, and mine is that it can't be denied that JT is a character. I think when one of the three people involved in "JT Leroy" (i.e. Geoffrey/Astor) gives an interview and confirms that his partner wrote all the books and his sister posed as JT, it's about as much confirmation as I need. Presumably you've seen the photo of Savannah Knoop (Geoffrey's sister) that was online? It's "JT". I went to a JT Leroy reading. I shook "his" hand. I hate to think that I was misled, but when I saw the photo of Savannah Knoop, I knew that was the person who's hand I shook. That, to me, is a fact.

As for those celebrities who have spoken out about his existence, I have still not read any recent quotes (since the Geoffrey Knoop interview/Laura's departure from SF) that state that JT Leroy - the small, blonde person who turns up at readings - wrote his books. Shirley Manson wrote in her journal that she supported "JT Leroy", but this is what she said:

"I suppose you will have read all the controversy about JT in the press. Suffice to say that the books remain a marvel and whoever wrote them is still a genius whether they are a man, woman or wilderbeast."

Not exactly confirmation that JT Leroy is who he says he is, is it?

Mary Gaitskill said something similar when asked if he was real:

"He's a real something. I'm not totally sure what he is. And I don't mean that in a bad way. I don't really know what he is or who he is. But I don't care. I like him a great deal and I think he's wonderful. I don't care if he's a hoax"

All I'm saying is that there is little or no evidence to support the fact that JT Leroy is a person who was born in Virginia in 1980 and lived the life he claimed to live. There is a lot of evidence to suggest that Laura Albert created the JT Leroy character and wrote the books.

I'm really not trying to convince you either way, just trying to show you why I'M convinced.

[_cherryvanilla_]

"If you type in JT Leroy on google and hunt down images, you'll find one of him beside Asia, giving a reading from Harold's End"

I presume you mean an old photo from 2005? The Harold's End readings happened in the most part before the hoax story broke. Asia read with him lots of times - she presented "The Heart.." at the London Gay & Lesbian Film Festival in April 2005, following a Harold's End reading. I was there. It doesn't really mean anything to me in terms of her supporting him as the author of his books since the scandal broke.

This is the photo of Savannah Knoop I referred to:
http://www.sfist.com/attachments/sfist_eve/leroy-face.jpg

[salsburysteakjr]

Ehh, I wish I was at my work computer so that I could go to the places I did with the work computer's cable modem and not my 56k connection. Shirley was the one who went out of her way to say how she'd held his hand, spent late nights hugging and crying with him, etc etc all sorts of things I'd find it odd a phony would go along with. So either that phony is this great an actor or Manson is lying for some god knows reason. Along with the others who say they speak with him over the phone and have had meals with him every night for weeks, discussing life and all that jazz. A bunch a quotes of that ilk I keep reading, and it just comes down to either they're all lying for the sake of I don't know what, or he does exist. Or the actor playing him so regularly deserves an oscar by now.

I certainly hope this doesn't get any kind of hostile, I sensed a little in your last post. I mean to be having a perfectly friendly conversation, and even if we are totally in different areas of belief, I never want anger to drop in and take a seat between you or I. If you don't believe any of that has happened so far then please take it as gracious concern on my part that we not never reach that place. The entire post was simply my question as to if it was known for a FACT if he was real or fictional, and apparently it is still not known for absolute sure.

When you start sentences out by saying "all i'm saying" it makes me feel like you're taking what I say as some kind of argument against all that you believe. Please do not take it that way, I only say what so far I am hesitant to go along with by and large. I am not picking on you or picking you out as foolish for believing it is a hoax.

Friends! please! Friends!