Comments | the_doves_diner: SO THEN

salsburysteakjr in the_doves_diner

SO THEN

Jun 08, 2006 03:19

Okay. Please, I would like ONLY THOSE who know factually what I'm going to ask. Even if the factual answer is, "nobody can be 100% sure", that is fine. Gossip seems to be the flood drowning most of any truth to either sides angle on the story, so please lets have us a very intellectual conversation full of what we DO know and nothing more ( Read more... )

Comments 29

inanis_sum June 8 2006, 10:59:07 UTC

I don't have a fucking clue. Sorry I can't answer your question, but I too have yet to see the Dvd, and I am just ambivilent on the whole thing right now.

From what I have seen the answer is no, he never existed. Even Asia Argento believes that. I never knew JT, so I really have nothing to go off of.

Either way I hope another novel comes out, the character was brilliant.

salsburysteakjr June 8 2006, 11:09:28 UTC

Yeah the article they posted in W with Asia sort of confused me, I wasn't sure if she was claiming yes or no to his existance. I know a lot of it has to do with my wishful thinking.

Though it's a sort of terrible thought, to wish he existed, to wish for someone to of lived a youth as terrible as is written about. It goes beyond being lied to, really, I just sortof thought the concept of this person overcoming such terrible hardships and coming out a rather sweet and kind person not to mention BORN author was rather wonderful and inspiring.

I agree with you, either way I hope JT Leroy novels will continue to come out long into the future. Sure the subjects may have to broaden, but I think the soul of whoever's writing them is sort of compelled by the taboo of such a lifestyle or other similar disturbed and self destructive methods of existance. Here's hoping, anyways.

inanis_sum June 8 2006, 12:20:05 UTC

The thing is, I like the character of JT so much. I just connected to it. And there were so many interviews with him, you felt like you knew him and his history. I miss that.

salsburysteakjr June 8 2006, 12:32:44 UTC

I know! All the interviews I've read really portray the person as quite intelligent and smart, with a great sense of humor and a GREAT big heart, a consideration for everything misused and mistreated. That was a nice person to know. Nice to believe after all the hell he was put through, that JT came out of it not bitter and stupidly cynical. The whole obsession with chocolate was cute, too. I want it to be real. I hope hope hope he is.

Thread 5

_cherryvanilla_ June 8 2006, 11:54:30 UTC

As far as I know, it's now 100% certain that Laura Albert wrote the JT Leroy books and that the person posing as JT in public was her sister-in-law. Geoffrey Knoop (Laura's ex-partner, Thor's father and the brother of the "public" JT) confirmed this in an interview with the New York Times.

I haven't seen 'The Heart..' DVD so I don't know what the interview contains.

I read months ago that somebody is making a documentary on JT (they had been doing so before the big scandal broke, and are continuing). Dennis Cooper has been interviewed for it, amongst others. Don't know when/if it will be released.

salsburysteakjr June 8 2006, 12:03:40 UTC

See I am not so 100% convinced despite all the evidence to prove so, simply for all those people claiming to have spent so much intimate time with JT, people like the lead singer of Garbage, who as far as I can tell has not much to gain from lying about it. Even Tom Waits seems to think he exists. Tom's no fool. Did he meet the phony JT? I just don't know. To top it off, they're STILL going along pretending he DOES exist, because recently JT showed up at a book place reading parts of Harold's End ( ... )

_cherryvanilla_ June 8 2006, 12:22:35 UTC

Well, I guess everyone has a different perspective on it. I haven't read much about it in the last few months so I don't know what Shirley Manson or Tom Waits are saying (if they're saying anything at all). I'm shocked to hear that JT turned up for a reading - when was this?

I'm totally convinced that Laura wrote the books, there's no doubt in my mind. Final proof for me was when people who were certainly NOT opposed to JT as a writer - people who worked for him, supported him, spent a lot of time with him, believed in "him" even when bombarded with evidence to the contrary - eventually accepted that Laura wrote the books. They knew Laura too and stuck up for her when the shit hit the fan, so it's not as if they have anything to gain from lying either. I just don't think anyone can deny that JT Leroy is a character any longer.

The worth of the books, as you say, is another issue. I still stand by their worth, regardless of their author.

salsburysteakjr June 8 2006, 12:43:35 UTC

Shirley and Tom are two of the many people who have spoken out in defense of his existance. I poked around online for a day just hunting whatever I could down, a lot of the quotes come, if you'd like to just look from one source, the journal Leroy has kept for the last few years online. It has links to official quotes from a number of celebrities and others who say he's slept on their couch, eaten their food, watched their tv, etc.

If you type in JT Leroy on google and hunt down images, you'll find one of him beside Asia, giving a reading from Harold's End.

As of right now even if you are correct and he is a fictional creation, I think "I just don't think anyone can deny that JT Leroy is a character any longer." is a little brash to be saying so bluntly when the evidence on either side isn't 100% conclusive. I'd say there are so few FACTS that it's still really a matter of opinion.

Thread 7

_cherryvanilla_ June 8 2006, 13:40:23 UTC

Oh no, no hostility! Sorry, I am distracted and am not wording my posts well. There has been so much bitchery in and around the JT Leroy camp and I certainly don't want to perpetuate it :) I think yours is a very valid question - do we now know for a fact that JT isn't who he says he is? I guess there is no straightforward answer to it, because one person's fact is another's conjecture. For me, Geoffrey Knoop's interview was 100% proof that it is fact that JT is not a real person. Others might need further evidence ( ... )

salsburysteakjr June 8 2006, 13:59:02 UTC

OH you've seen the movie? I could not find a theatre anywhere that played it, and now I literally don't have a penny to rent the damn thing. Like they'd probably even stock that to rent at most video stores ( ... )

_cherryvanilla_ June 8 2006, 14:42:07 UTC

I can go on and on about film forever too - yes, I'm a huge movie buff ( ... )

salsburysteakjr June 8 2006, 14:08:58 UTC

PS can I add you? You're obviously a very nice and decent intelligent human being and I imagine your posts will be chock full of all that plus more. If not, no problem. Just thought you was neat enough to include in my friends list. As you can see I don't just grab anyone. I find it weird though how many people have added me without asking or even me knowing who they were.

But anyways, I'd love if we could add one another. Think it over if you must. But think fast, time is of the essence!

Thread 5

trashcanpoet June 12 2006, 20:34:59 UTC

I loved Brick and Mysterious Skin. Joseph Gordon-Levitt is awesome! Mysterious Skin, by the way, is based on one of my all-time favorite books by an amazing author named Scott Heim who I think anyone who is or was a JT fan should check out, since his novels tend to run in that vein.

Back to the topic at hand, I want very desperately to believe in JT, too, and I am not one to draw a conclusion about something so serious as a person's existence until it has been 100% proven but... I am doubtful, and I am hurt by the experience. I feel like if I go on saying I believe he's real in the face of all this, I look stupid... like I'm running around clapping my hands and saying I believe in fairies. But he was a nice idea, wasn't he? ...This guy who proved to the underdogs like me that we could do something, we could be somebody, we didn't have to just be victims or statistics. I owe my own fledgling writing career to him, so I guess I should be grateful to him or "him", whoever he is....

salsburysteakjr June 12 2006, 21:00:54 UTC

Yeah since I posted this I discovered. And it's pretty much 100% a fact now that JT Leroy does not exist. I rented The Heart is Deceitful Above All Things dvd, and after featuring an extra of "JT" giving a reading of Harold's End, they then have another feature entierly about the fact he is non-existant and the cast and crew of the film are asked when they found out, does it matter, etc. From Asia on down. So basically no, he is not real ( ... )

_cherryvanilla_ June 13 2006, 23:19:19 UTC

Mysterious Skin, by the way, is based on one of my all-time favorite books by an amazing author named Scott Heim who I think anyone who is or was a JT fan should check out, since his novels tend to run in that vein.

Scott Heim didn't take kindly to the revelation of the JT hoax. He and Gregg Araki were supposed to take part in a panel discussion on adapting novels for the screen with JT and Asia Argento last year, but I don't think it actually happened. He said that he had suspected something was "not right" about JT Leroy as far back as 2000, when he interviewed him.

salsburysteakjr June 14 2006, 03:03:34 UTC

I can't find Mysterious Skin in any bookstore and it drives me nuts. The movie is hideous, and after reading his In Awe I KNOW the novel has to be better than the movie. Araki is one of the crappier directors of the last decade or two, and his adaptation proves his lack of any ability to create an atmosphere or feeling of mood and setting and character. The dvd has the two lead cast members reading quite a bit from the novel and it's obvious the film did a great disservice to the book ( ... )

Thread 12