Sirius in Grimmauld Place
So yesterday, jazzypom posed a list of semi-rhetorical thought provoking questions about Remus, Sirius, events in OotP including:
2b. When Harry does the fire in the hearth thing to speak to Sirius (and Lupin was there), what were Sirius and Lupin doing before? I mean, Lupin seemed comfortable - and himself and Sirius seemed cool.
I'm rereading OoTP and it hit me- Sirius had loads of lucid moments as long as people were around - they seemed to be his Prozac.
and ~~ a question about WHAT! what Dumbledore doing putting Sirius in virtual house arrest in Grimmauld Place, when he should have known his former student's personality and weaknesses better
which inspired the following comment by ... and triggered the thought... cut for long conversation...
xylodemon said: "I have a looney theory about Pureblood families and inbreeding that I won't get into here, but suffice to say, I think Sirius was a little unhinged *before* Azkaban (and I think it was hereditary, but I digress). Assuming he was, there was no way Dumbledore could have missed that. And that house was not healthy for *anyone*. I mean, the conditions there seemed to be wearing on everyone. But Sirius -- He hated his mother (and the house) enough to run away when he was sixteen, which is another thing I am sure Dumbledore was aware of.
I've always had the feeling when reading OotP that most everyone (aside from Remus and the Trio) wanted Sirius to go away. I'm sure they were more than willing to accept Sirius innocence because the story came from Dumbledore, but thats not the same as accepting him as a house guest and work partner. School!Sirius was reckless and a bit manic and action! action! action!, and I think the Order's slow, quiet, behind-the-scenes work was making him impatient.
Also, he had a lot wearing on him -- James' and Lily's death at his mistake and suspicion of Remus, his escaping from Azkaban only to protect Harry only to have his hands tied because he was a convicted murderer, the fact that Peter, who was actually the murderer, was running free (and a threat to Harry) -- and it made him (understandably) tempermental. But, as his mood swings and tantrums carried on (and I also think he was drinking), I think there came a point when most of the Order wanted him to go away for their own sanity."
this really hit me, for two reasons
a) because I'm fond of the image of a bored out of his mind Sirius whiling away the time drinking and hatching big plans for when he can do something... (those of you who've read the fic I wrote about this image know my take on it), and
b) the notion that the other Order memebers (besides the openly disdainful Snape) didn't know how to handle or deal with Sirius
- Also, we know that Sirius didn't have such a stable teenage relationship with his parents. I wonder what his childhood years were like. Was he the perfect dutiful heir or one of those kids who constantly questions things. Did he have a sudden break with his parents or was it more of a slow dawning of what he hated about being a Black. We know he was friends with James pretty early on in his school time (right?), but when did he really split with his family, besides when he outright left home at 16.
I do agree with the notion, as xylodemon states: also think he was drinking. Though, I hesitate to think that I associate Gary Oldman's alcoholism and his manic portrayal of Sirius too much with this image. However, the extreme ups and downs of Sirius' mood in the text do seem indicative of more than light alcohol use.
I think Sirius was a little unhinged *before* Azkaban (and I think it was hereditary) ~~ This fits in with the cliche but true history of a lot of Europe's nobility, especially the Spanish kings, the Phillips (as far I can remember my art history) with the weak chins. We now know that producing offspring with one's close cousin isn't as disasterous as it was thought to be, but after so many close kin marriages, in breeding takes it's toll. Thus, I take Ron's statement about how marrying Muggles saved Wizarding families to mean that either fertility among Purebloods was low (not a problem for the Weasleys), or too many Purebloods went mad around the 18th -19th centuries?
--This digresses into the idea of a bottleneck event (ala the cheetah population that is dangerously inbred due to a big die-off at one point in history), though apparently Witch burning wasn't so disastrous as some wizard's were able to use flameproof charms when burned at the stake and survive. ?
xylodemon also rasies the point that has been hashed out in other fan fic (?) that there is something stronger mentally, magically that allows Purebloods to survive a long imprisionment in Azkaban, that would drive lesser Wizards mad. Witness how both Sirius and Bellatrix were relatively able to function well enough to avoid capture and survive upon escaping the prision. Perhaps it's a Black trait. *shrug*
discuss, disagree, rant, rage:
ETA: I'm tickled that you all decided I'm such a smarty-pants snooty Ravenclaw, as it's where I'd sort myself too. I'm not brave enough for Gryffindor, nor big hearted enough for Hufflepuff, but I'm no ambitious climber of a Slytherin. :-) Somehow all the sorting hat quizzes put me in Gryffindor though.
ETA2: also I can't resist the opportunity to prop up the fan fic I wrote bout what Sirius was doing and why when stuck at Grimmauld Place #12
2b. When Harry does the fire in the hearth thing to speak to Sirius (and Lupin was there), what were Sirius and Lupin doing before? I mean, Lupin seemed comfortable - and himself and Sirius seemed cool.
I'm rereading OoTP and it hit me- Sirius had loads of lucid moments as long as people were around - they seemed to be his Prozac.
and ~~ a question about WHAT! what Dumbledore doing putting Sirius in virtual house arrest in Grimmauld Place, when he should have known his former student's personality and weaknesses better
which inspired the following comment by ... and triggered the thought... cut for long conversation...
xylodemon said: "I have a looney theory about Pureblood families and inbreeding that I won't get into here, but suffice to say, I think Sirius was a little unhinged *before* Azkaban (and I think it was hereditary, but I digress). Assuming he was, there was no way Dumbledore could have missed that. And that house was not healthy for *anyone*. I mean, the conditions there seemed to be wearing on everyone. But Sirius -- He hated his mother (and the house) enough to run away when he was sixteen, which is another thing I am sure Dumbledore was aware of.
I've always had the feeling when reading OotP that most everyone (aside from Remus and the Trio) wanted Sirius to go away. I'm sure they were more than willing to accept Sirius innocence because the story came from Dumbledore, but thats not the same as accepting him as a house guest and work partner. School!Sirius was reckless and a bit manic and action! action! action!, and I think the Order's slow, quiet, behind-the-scenes work was making him impatient.
Also, he had a lot wearing on him -- James' and Lily's death at his mistake and suspicion of Remus, his escaping from Azkaban only to protect Harry only to have his hands tied because he was a convicted murderer, the fact that Peter, who was actually the murderer, was running free (and a threat to Harry) -- and it made him (understandably) tempermental. But, as his mood swings and tantrums carried on (and I also think he was drinking), I think there came a point when most of the Order wanted him to go away for their own sanity."
this really hit me, for two reasons
a) because I'm fond of the image of a bored out of his mind Sirius whiling away the time drinking and hatching big plans for when he can do something... (those of you who've read the fic I wrote about this image know my take on it), and
b) the notion that the other Order memebers (besides the openly disdainful Snape) didn't know how to handle or deal with Sirius
- Also, we know that Sirius didn't have such a stable teenage relationship with his parents. I wonder what his childhood years were like. Was he the perfect dutiful heir or one of those kids who constantly questions things. Did he have a sudden break with his parents or was it more of a slow dawning of what he hated about being a Black. We know he was friends with James pretty early on in his school time (right?), but when did he really split with his family, besides when he outright left home at 16.
I do agree with the notion, as xylodemon states: also think he was drinking. Though, I hesitate to think that I associate Gary Oldman's alcoholism and his manic portrayal of Sirius too much with this image. However, the extreme ups and downs of Sirius' mood in the text do seem indicative of more than light alcohol use.
I think Sirius was a little unhinged *before* Azkaban (and I think it was hereditary) ~~ This fits in with the cliche but true history of a lot of Europe's nobility, especially the Spanish kings, the Phillips (as far I can remember my art history) with the weak chins. We now know that producing offspring with one's close cousin isn't as disasterous as it was thought to be, but after so many close kin marriages, in breeding takes it's toll. Thus, I take Ron's statement about how marrying Muggles saved Wizarding families to mean that either fertility among Purebloods was low (not a problem for the Weasleys), or too many Purebloods went mad around the 18th -19th centuries?
--This digresses into the idea of a bottleneck event (ala the cheetah population that is dangerously inbred due to a big die-off at one point in history), though apparently Witch burning wasn't so disastrous as some wizard's were able to use flameproof charms when burned at the stake and survive. ?
xylodemon also rasies the point that has been hashed out in other fan fic (?) that there is something stronger mentally, magically that allows Purebloods to survive a long imprisionment in Azkaban, that would drive lesser Wizards mad. Witness how both Sirius and Bellatrix were relatively able to function well enough to avoid capture and survive upon escaping the prision. Perhaps it's a Black trait. *shrug*
discuss, disagree, rant, rage:
ETA: I'm tickled that you all decided I'm such a smarty-pants snooty Ravenclaw, as it's where I'd sort myself too. I'm not brave enough for Gryffindor, nor big hearted enough for Hufflepuff, but I'm no ambitious climber of a Slytherin. :-) Somehow all the sorting hat quizzes put me in Gryffindor though.
ETA2: also I can't resist the opportunity to prop up the fan fic I wrote bout what Sirius was doing and why when stuck at Grimmauld Place #12