Christos Gage's interview on Angel & Faith Issue 20 and why it doesn't fly for this Spike fan
Anyone following along knows I’m very against what the Buffy comics has turned into. A couple of weeks ago I was in a good place. I saw what they were doing with the Buffy character and knew I was done. I did my best to ignore the comics. However there still lingered a curiosity about what they planned for Spike. I still do have curiosity regarding season 9 and where all this is supposed to be headed but I’ve amazed myself in realizing that curiosity is edging on disinterest and complete apathy where before is it was genuine openness and partial eagerness to know the final outcome.
I knew that whatever outcome we did get for season 9, that the because the extremely poor execution and journey that season 9 would never be highly regarded or that we would get a pay off that was worth it. The final message or theme will not be heard because it is never the destination, but the journey, and the writers/editors of the comics have not given us a journey that is worth much consideration. What type of ending matters if what came before is so weak and confusing? In any story, each step the character makes takes us closer to the end, and in each of those steps is a build-up to that end. I’m sure if the writers and editors read this they would say “No, there is build-up!” I would then ask them to show me and tell me, and then ask why they had to show me and tell me. It’s the text that matters, not the intention. And if the text is telling me, the reader, one thing (or in this case, nothing) but if the writer wanted to tell another, is that failure on my part, the reader, or is that of the writer?
Interview here.
And that brings me to my main point. I’ve changed my view of the comics again. Before I hated the comics and was extremely unhappy with them. After Spike’s crossover on Angel & Faith though, I never knew I could feel this much seething rage and disgust. It’s crossed over into something I’ve never knew existed within me. It’s brought this post, in which I wanted to address Christos Gage’s attempt and utter failure to depict Spike. I wish to show why I believe his intent was also flawed and that even with the best of intentions, if people need a guide book to understand your characters, that is a failure on the part of the writer, and not the reader. It is what is presented in the text that matters and if you have such a limited space to tell the story you wish to tell, you need to be able to make every word and action count and completely convey your intent.
So this brings me to his interview. He was asked this question by Bamph:So my question is what is your take on Spike's characterzation in these two issues and where his head space is at following the first part of Buffy in season 9 and his own mini?
This is Gage’s reply: For me it’s part of a whole. In BTVS we see one aspect of Spike. He’s being brave and selfless, pushing Dowling and Buffy together because he thinks it’s what’s best for her even though it clearly hurts him, offering to raise her child with her, etc. In his mini, which I think Victor wrote brilliantly, we saw Spike really think about his relationship with Buffy and himself, and make some great strides as a person. In A&F, we’re seeing the less mature side. The side that’s exhausted with being good and brave and mature, and wants to get into a good brawl and get drunk and get laid. Yes, Virginia, you can be in love with someone and have sex with someone else, especially if the person you love doesn’t want to be with you. Part of the reason Spike acted this way is that being around Angel seems to bring that side of him out. Part of it is that he figures he’s got some opportunity. Faith has implied a sexual interest in him before (Season 6, also the body-switching episode). Yes, he turned down Morgan in the mini, but I think there are reasons for that beyond “I must save myself for Buffy.” One, as a Succubus, there’s danger there…she admitted she was trying to manipulate him. Two, it sounded to me like she was offering more than a roll in the hay. (“We could have been this century’s power couple.”) Anyway, the upshot is, like Shaft, Spike is a complicated man. In A&F, we saw a side of him that we didn’t see in the other books, but I think the guy from the other books is still in there and we saw flashes of him too. (Like when he told Alasdair not to leave Giles’ body “like that.”)
As for my take on what a vampire is: In the Buffyverse, a vampire is created when the essence (or some part thereof) of a demon enters a dead human’s body. But that vampire is not the demon’s persona; nor is it the dead person’s. It seems to be a new persona that’s kind of amalgam of the worst/least inhibited parts of the dead human and the demon. (Remember when Alternate Future Vampire Willow came back and Real Not Yet Gay Willow observed she was “kinda gay” and someone said vampires have no connection to their human hosts and Angel was like, “Actually…”) So I don’t think you can say Angelus and Angel are completely separate beings, but they’re not the same being…Angelus is Angel’s dark side without the good parts. Spike’s soulless side seemed to have more of William’s good parts, and it’s interesting to speculate on why that is…maybe William’s bad parts were more tied in with his good parts?
I will break this up piece by piece. First: For me it’s part of a whole. In BTVS we see one aspect of Spike. He’s being brave and selfless, pushing Dowling and Buffy together because he thinks it’s what’s best for her even though it clearly hurts him, offering to raise her child with her, etc.
I have to say, we did not see Spike push Dowling and Buffy together. He approved of the relationship, but made zero effort to get them together. Which holds true for my understanding of Spike’s character. He would not get involved, but he would not get in the way. If Spike approved of Dowling, then I can see him being supportive. I do not see Spike pushing Buffy to be with another man. One, it’s too patronizing. Spike is rarely patronizing (though he can be). And two, Spike let’s Buffy make her own choices and would not push her into anything she did not want or did not initiate herself. To me, it’s just the tip of what Gage did wrong in his initial thought process in writing Spike.
To Gage’s thoughts on vampires? I’d say that I mostly agree with him. Vampirism is the shadow of oneself with a demon in control. You are you with demonic urges, no altruism sense of right and wrong (no soul), with all your bad parts taking front and center. So I won’t say much about that, other than wishing that Gage took this type of analytical skill with the characters he writes.
In regards to this: In A&F, we’re seeing the less mature side. The side that’s exhausted with being good and brave and mature, and wants to get into a good brawl and get drunk and get laid. Yes, Virginia, you can be in love with someone and have sex with someone else, especially if the person you love doesn’t want to be with you. Part of the reason Spike acted this way is that being around Angel seems to bring that side of him out. Part of it is that he figures he’s got some opportunity. Faith has implied a sexual interest in him before (Season 6, also the body-switching episode). Yes, he turned down Morgan in the mini, but I think there are reasons for that beyond “I must save myself for Buffy.” One, as a Succubus, there’s danger there…she admitted she was trying to manipulate him. Two, it sounded to me like she was offering more than a roll in the hay. (“We could have been this century’s power couple.”) Anyway, the upshot is, like Shaft, Spike is a complicated man. In A&F, we saw a side of him that we didn’t see in the other books, but I think the guy from the other books is still in there and we saw flashes of him too. (Like when he told Alasdair not to leave Giles’ body “like that.”)
What was the reasonings for bringing out the immature idea of Spike? After his mini he was more or less in a good place. What brought on this immaturity? Why would Spike be immature? It’s mentioned because he is tired of being good, brave, and mature. When did this happen? Again, the end of the mini he was in a happier place. I do not understand why it was needed for him to become immature for the sake of immaturity. If Spike was still down after his mini, I would understand the need for Spike to want to get drunk and have a good brawl...and well, Spike likes sex and I’m sure it’s something he desires. So being around Angel bring out this immaturity in Spike, per Gage. But the other reason here, that Spike is being immature because Buffy won’t give him sex and doesn’t want to be with him. (I’m going to address the Buffy of it later.) Also another reason for his immaturity is because now he has opportunity (with Faith no less). (Sidenote here: So as soon as Buffy rejects Spike, again, Spike immediately wants to have sex with someone else? Personally this shows little respect for his feelings for Buffy. Yes, let him have sex, rebound sex, but if you are trying to sell us a story where Spike is trying to deal with his feelings for Buffy and is going to go back to her, then perhaps waiting until after his final dealings with Buffy would have been a better approach?)
This is where I have a problem with this. Again, Spike’s mini had Spike get drunk and get into a couple fights. And I agree that sex with Morgan would have bad, for more reasons than a just her being a succubus but I do not agree with the display of Spike’s sexual appetite being one of the sole reasons he is down. Also the aspect of him so focused on sex above all to hit on every woman he encounters is just something we have never seen canon Spike do on the show. He does want connection, which Gage did hit on, but that is the reason he would not hit and lust/pant after any opportunity to have sex. What purpose does Spike having sex do for his character or his arc? Again, it’s just sex for the sake of sex. And Gage chose to regress Spike to make him have sex.
Men have emotions too (and Spike is full of them) and perhaps I am wrong, maybe most men just view sex as nothing more than a release, but it strikes me odd that Spike would need sex with Harmony to feel better? His stunt on Angel the series with Harmony was when he just was resurrected and I feel that there was some issues with that that made Spike so uncharacteristically try it with Harmony. We do not see this behavior again in Spike though. And he goes the rest of the year without sex (as do the other cast members) just fine.
I’ve mentioned this before, but had Spike simply gone to a bar and had a woman (preferably one of Nadia’s crew, human and soul having) pick him up for one a night stand would have actual more benefit in an overall story arc for Spike. One, it shows that he does have options, that he doesn’t have to go back to Buffy. It sets up a possible future love interest but it doesn’t have to be. It could simply be a one night stand with someone Spike might have made a slight connection to that would make Spike feel better about himself. Yes, it would be rebound so to speak, but it it has foresight on a future story line for Spike once he leaves the Buffy title (which is a given at this point).
Sex with Harmony was very foul on many reasons. It was sex just for the sake of sex and while that might be okay in real life, for a story, it has no place unless to paint a certain character a certain way. I’m sure they would say it was to help Spike get on his feet, but how would sex with Harmony forward Spike’s story? It does nothing for him that a good wank wouldn't do, because the text showed us that Spike does not respect Harmony. (I’ll come back to this.)
Hitting on Faith simply because she showed interest doesn’t bother me. However, the execution of it does. Once he saw that faith wasn’t interested, he would lay off. And Spike with a soul never assumes (unless with Harmony, again because he has no respect for her...though I thought he learned from that). That goes back to the AR and the fact he has a soul. His flambout behavior with Faith was too reminiscent of his soulless behavior. Not to mention that in season 7 him and Faith had a falling out when she helped kick Buffy out of the house. From there we do not see them interact again, because I believe we were meant to take it that Spike lost any interest in Faith after that moment. So any serious flirting does seem to me as not respecting what came before.
Now unto the next question from Maggie: But my question is about why you would think that the dynamic wouldn't have changed even more in the wake of the Twilight event.
Gage’s reply: By the time Spike came along in Season 8, Angel was pretty much possessed by Twilight. At the end of BTVS #38 - the “Angelus!” “Twilight.” bit - I think it’s pretty clear…at the very least, Spike doesn’t see him as “Angel.” So I don’t think Spike holds a grudge against Angel for trying to kill him. But yes, certainly, Angel has screwed up in a major way. I totally agree that Spike has a better track record with a soul than Angel. He has a better track record WITHOUT a soul than Angel, too. And yet, somehow Angel still seems to just get this role of “the great cosmic love of Buffy’s life” anyway. If I was Spike, that would piss me off…and make me insecure as hell. WTF? What did he to do deserve it? What did I do NOT to deserve it?
I don’t agree that the Angel Season 5 dynamic between Angel and Spike was big/wiser brother vs. younger/foolish brother. I think it was two brothers with the same “genes” - i.e. vampire with a soul, similar backgrounds - approaching life in two very different ways, slinging attitude at each other, and secretly envying each other. Imagine two brothers, one who is a happily married, settled family man, and the other who is a swinging bachelor with a new girl every day of the week, and when they’re feeling low or tired or frustrated they look at the other and think, “Lucky bastard.” For me, there’s something of that in the Angel/Spike relationship - each looks at the way the other is approaching being a vampire with a soul and envies it, even though they wouldn’t want it for themselves, and will outwardly condemn it. I think the dynamic between them HAS changed since Angel Season 5, probably in ways they don’t even realize yet, but it hasn’t changed completely. I’ve changed a lot since 1993, but put me in Vegas with an old buddy from school and I might not act like it.
To address this:If I was Spike, that would piss me off…and make me insecure as hell. WTF? What did he to do deserve it? What did I do NOT to deserve it?
That right there leaves me very on edge. Gage is not Spike. Spike is not Gage. Spike is Spike. Is is not about If I were Spike but How would Spike feel at this moment. Gage’s approach is the reason why Spike is out of character. This line tells me everything that is wrong with Gage’s portrayal of Spike. He is approaching it as if he were Spike. He does not make room for Spike being his own person. Spike does not have Nice Guy Syndrome and I do not believe Spike would ever think he deserves it. Again, this shows that Gage is not taking into account Spike’s soul. Since he has gotten his soul, Spike can be extremely humble in what he believes he “deserves” and while he has more self confidence as of late and more self esteem, Spike does not feel a heavy weight of entitlement. I have never gotten that impression from Spike in season 7 and Angel season 5. Sure, he was misguided about thinking he had a destiny and that as a champion he’d get heaven, but he never complained about it.
Again, this: I’ve changed a lot since 1993, but put me in Vegas with an old buddy from school and I might not act like it. Tells me everything I really need to know. He treats the dynamic between Angel and Spike, not within the context of what has come before. Gage lacks the empathy to really get into the shoes of the characters he writes and thinks about all that come before. Instead, he says, “What would I do in this situation? Oh, I’d act like this!” and then goes to write, without ever so much thinking that Spike and Angel are their own characters who may not think that way.
To this question by Stoney:Not just behind the characterisation but that some development fundamentals of his main show arc were undone/contradicted and pulled apart like this?
To go back to my Vegas metaphor, if I mature and learn some things about myself and get to a good place, and then I run into an old friend from college and spend a night getting drunk and acting irresponsible the way I used to, that doesn’t “undo” my maturation. Everything in Spike’s miniseries happened. Referring to his unsouled self as “not such a bad sort” was both a comparison to Angelus (who was a lot worse) and sort of sour grapes, as was his implication that Buffy preferred him that way. Of course he knows he was a monster without a soul. I think Spike especially (and Faith too) is a character whose words you can’t always take at face value, especially in this story. Spike obviously doesn’t want to lose his soul, nor does he regret getting it back. We see that in the fact that he’s afraid to fight demons that could suck out the soul, making him a monster again. BUT, it’s got to bother him that Buffy was willing to have a sexual relationship with him when he was soulless and not now. I get that the sex between them back then was Buffy’s expression of her own personal issues, not healthy, not romantic, etc., and Spike knows that too…consciously. But for guys especially, sex is often seen as an expression of a woman caring about/valuing them. So even though Spike knows intellectually that “it’s not you, it’s me” with Buffy, and he’s glad she’s in a better place now, and he even seems to have concluded that she should have a relationship with a human (Dowling) because it’d be better for her, more normal, offering her the chance for kids, etc., it’s got to grate on Spike that she was willing to get closer to him when he was a “soulless monster” than now. (Again, I know there’s a difference between physical and emotional intimacy, and so does Spike, but knowing it and feeling it are two different things.) His line about “some might even have preferred me soulless” is a reflection of that. Here’s an example, using hypothetical random people without loyal fan bases. Two people who play in a band together are heavy into drinking or drugs, during which they have a hot but ultimately destructive/unhealthy sexual relationship. They get sober, and remain friends/bandmates, but the guy is romantically interested in the girl whereas she feels that to be sexually involved would be unhealthy and a bad idea. Intelletcually he knows she’s right, but a part of him thinks, “Damn, maybe I was just more fun/sexier/more interesting as an addict.” Which is tied in with the frustration that sobriety is hard, and there’s a bit of a longing for a time when he didn’t have to be strong and make the responsible choices. Does that make any sense at all?
As for Pimp Angel and Harmony, I really wish I’d had more room to get into this in the comic, but here goes. Angel gave Spike Harmony’s number, not the cheat code to her pants. A pimp forces or bribes a woman into having sex with a man she wouldn’t sleep with on her own. Angel just put them in touch, and Harmony made the choices she made from there. I think Harmony’s relationship with Spike is quite different than it’s been in the past. She is in a very different place than she was when she and Spike last met. And so is he. You’ll notice that in issue #20, at no time is Spike disrespectful or cruel to her, the way he had been in the past. (It’s pretty clear that Angel and Faith don’t think terribly highly of Harmony, but that’s because she’s a selfish, narcissistic, famous-for-being-famous celebrity - without a soul - not because she slept with Spike, or anyone else.) As we saw in issue #5, Harmony is now a world-famous celebrity, loved by countless millions, enjoying the perks of fame like sex with a succession of attractive men, including some dude who kind of looks like David Tennant and has the same first name. She’s not hung up on Spike any more, and they’ve actually come to something like friendship. With, on this occasion anyway, benefits. Angel has seen Harmony’s current life in issue #5. He knows Harmony seems to enjoy having sex just for pleasure and that such an encounter might boost Spike’s spirits. So he decided to put them in touch and see if it might be fun for both. Good idea or bad idea? More on that in the response to the next question.
Again, with this: To go back to my Vegas metaphor, if I mature and learn some things about myself and get to a good place, and then I run into an old friend from college and spend a night getting drunk and acting irresponsible the way I used to, that doesn’t “undo” my maturation. We see that Gage is not approaching this within the correct context. He is not asking the right questions. Angel is not an old friend from college. He is someone with whom Spike has a complicated history with who he should be angry with, furious with in fact, because of Angel’s dealings with Twilgiht and what he did to Buffy. Spike or anyone, shouldn’t turn into an immature little boy (soulless to boot) just because he is around Angel. From what we saw on Angel the series, Spike was competitive but also nitpicking with Angel, because he knows Angel’s soft spots and because he understand the darkness within. Of course, there is blame for Angel opening the door to wickness, regret, and a slew of other things. It does bring out a less flattering side of Spike. It does not however make Spike into a thoughtless idiot. Or regress him to the point of where Spike was in season 4 of Buffy. Again, Gage does not account for any growth in Spike. We all change how we act to certain events as we mature. Spike regressing so much by Gage says to me, that Spike doesn’t have a soul and that he never matured. Again, and again Gage is taking on the character as if he were the character instead of letting the character speak for himself.
In regards to this: I think Spike especially (and Faith too) is a character whose words you can’t always take at face value, especially in this story.
Hmm, when was the last time we saw Spike as an unreliable narrator? Wasn’t he more truth sayer? Actually, since his soul, besides a few misunderstandings, Spike has spoken less falsehoods. Spike takes the truth and uses it as a weapon. But he also speaks his mind. Spike in Destiny more than likely actually thought being a champion and getting the shanshu was his destiny because he was so lost and wanting to take from Angel that it had to be true for him. And besides that? When has Spike, since his soul, ever said anything that was to be taken as unreliable and not something that he misunderstaood (season 7 comes to mind, but we clearly see his misunderstanding Buffy and she tells him right away)?
So what Spike says a lot of readers will take as the truth.
And that leads me to another thing. While upset at someone, we often speak unjust things, often with venom (and it shows). Spike did not say the things he said with obvious venom to show us that he did not mean the things he said. And in fact, when we speak things, as human, they hold an ounce of truth to them on how we feel. If Spike is saying all these things, he actually feels them and believes.
But everything he says does not, or would ever, be something I would say as in character for Spike. Even if Spike doesn’t mean anything he says, again he comes from a place that does not coincide with how I view Spike. Spike is a victorian gentlemen under all that leather. He does not place blame on others. He values his soul too much a part from Buffy that just because he can’t have her he would never say anything about wanting to be without it or Buffy preferring him without it (again, season 7 shows us that Spike knows very much that Buffy prefers him with one). This shows me that Gage, or really Dark Horse for that matter, is not paying attention to the fact that Spike, soulless, got the soul for Buffy, but afterwards he came to appreciate it separately from Buffy. That was growth for him, because he understood he was a monster without one and that fact DH tries to sell us a Spike wanting to be evil again just because Buffy doesn't want to give it up to him really shows a gross disrespect for soulful Spike.
To this: Two people who play in a band together are heavy into drinking or drugs, during which they have a hot but ultimately destructive/unhealthy sexual relationship. They get sober, and remain friends/bandmates, but the guy is romantically interested in the girl whereas she feels that to be sexually involved would be unhealthy and a bad idea. Intelletcually he knows she’s right, but a part of him thinks, “Damn, maybe I was just more fun/sexier/more interesting as an addict.” Which is tied in with the frustration that sobriety is hard, and there’s a bit of a longing for a time when he didn’t have to be strong and make the responsible choices. Does that make any sense at all?
I will get to this once I get to the Spike/Buffy part of this discussion. But Gage contradicts himself with this scenario once he has Spike have sex with Harmony. If soullessness equals alcoholism, then Spike did a number on Harmony during season 5 of Buffy, which later she did not want to have sex with him in Angel season 5. So the message he is trying to tell falls apart, but gives us insight on what Dark Horse believes about Spike and Buffy.
As for the rest of Gage’s explanation regarding Harmony and Spike, I will have to say that I'm not convinced. First, that is something we the audience really needed to see. It was extremely sloppy and just plain bad writing not to include that. If you couldn’t include that, then the scene just shouldn’t have happened because the audience can not read Gage's mind. We don't know if they are friends, or even why they would be friends? Does Spike respect Harmony now? Truly? This needed to be text. Second, last Spike spoke of Harmony was in gross disrespect. Third, she is soulless. Forth, Spike knows better from season 5 of Angel. Fifth, Harmony is still killing people and slayers. Spike would have issues with it. Or should. If Buffy had a hard time sleeping with Spike in season 6, than it should bother Spike here. Sixth, Spike would never consider Harmony a friend. He doesn’t like her. He doesn’t respect her, she holds no interest for him besides sex (which he moved past in season 5 of Angel). Lastly, if Buffy still has issues with sleeping with Spike for the same reasons, but because with Harmony it’s okay now because they are “friends”, the same should apply to Buffy and Spike (especially with what happened in season 7). If it doesn’t, that’s a double standard and clear indication of either bias or their plans/views regarding Spike/Buffy. So no, Gage, your explanation here does not help or explain anything. In fact, I’m sorry, but to me, it’s just hot air to cover up a mess up in the bad writing and the fact you just wanted Spike to have sex for the sake of sex (or, maybe, it’s because he needs to blow of steam? Again, wouldn’t a good brawl and wank be enough in this case). Wait, here is a quote from Gage about Faith, but should also apply to Spike:…sex for Faith was a physical release, but it didn’t make her feel better about herself. So um, if Harmony was just a release, why would it make Spike happy? Or how would that be able to allow Spike to blow off steam to have sex with someone he has zero respect or care for? And you say Spike is creature of emotions and a romantic. So sleeping with someone to make yourself feel better when you have zero like for that person who you sleep with(or who brings out the worst in you)...is supposed to make you feel better? Okay Gage, I get your logic.
The rest of Gage’s answers are pretty much summed up with the above. Spike did not push Dowling onto Buffy. They mutually found attraction to each other and Spike was just okay with it (though not okay with it). So I don’t understand where Gage is getting that.
Now, I finally come to where this interviews gives away spoilers to the Buffy and Spike relationship. Gage has mentioned Buffy a couple times in this interview. She doesn’t want to be with him (but she loves him? Don't think so here) and thinks a physical relationship is a bad idea. And then of course, we have the Harmony sex.
I take that to mean there is zero Spuffy on the horizon. Spike had to have sex here because he wouldn’t be getting any, anytime soon. Buffy does not want to be with Spike, because of what happened in season 6. I take that as something discussed between them all. Buffy and Spike will never again have any sort of physical interaction ever again. Dark Horse has revealed their hand and it does anger me that they strung us along. It shows, again, they played the spuffy for sales. Spike being not over Buffy was all because they had no idea what to do with Spike this season. It’s why they continued with Spike’s love for Buffy, not because there will be more of it, but because it was the only story they could think of for Spike. That leaves me upset as a Spike fan because I felt Spike did have more story to tell a part from just his feelings for Buffy.
Personally, issue 20 of Angel & Faith has lead me to dislike Spike and I have lost any interest in the second reunion of Spike and Buffy in the comics. DH spoiled themselves with this interview on what is going to go down for Spike and Buffy. Spike will either move on at the end of season 9 or come to some epiphany that will probably be very lackluster. (See Xander's none secret in Buffy issue 20.)
So that was the Spike/Buffy aspect of what I got from the interview, but it is not my conclusion. What I wish to say is that, while Gage seems like a nice person with class, his intentions did not shine through to the page and as I a reader I did not take away any of intentions. I believe that while with the best of intent, those intentions were also from a flawed perspective. Gage portrayed Spike in an insultive way to me, being too clownish and too sex starved, and too focused on being good for Buffy and not himself. In regards to the sex agian, Spike is a good looking man and would be able to pick up a girl in a bar or a girl would pick him up, as shown in Buffy season 7. Having him pursue sex in such a manner strips Spike of his layers by depicting a lustful teenager when Spike is much more than that. Spike should have found a way to feel good about himself by himself, and most likely that would be sex as he is a tactile indivdual, but without making the character look pathetic and/or unable. Again, having a woman pick him up would have shown that Spike is able to attract other women and that would make him feel better. He would have options, he would have chances at romance after Buffy. That, I believe, would mean more to Spike. Having Spike be unsure about who he is in relation to Angel and not Buffy, and not bemoaning his soul, then being unsure of how to go on but then having a ray of light by having another woman(new) open her arms to him, I think would have fitted Spike's arc better than what Gage gave us.
Reply if you want to argue any points! Or if I missed anything. I might have missed something or I might add to this? Sorry for the long post!
EDIT: I wish to link to this other post to clarify a few things that I needed to think about to really express them properly. Here is the post.