Divided by a Common Language

Apr 27, 2010 23:47

Just read, and was struck by, this quote from a Jonathon Raban essay ( Read more... )

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Comments 25

theficklepickle April 28 2010, 06:57:24 UTC
It's a minefield, that's what it is. I studied the English language in some depth for my degree and I still get caught out. For example, when I had an American friend de-Brit a story for me, I discovered that she had no idea what the phrase 'to ring the changes' meant, because there simply is no tradition of English-style bell-ringing in the USA. And don't get me started on the difference between the American and British uses of 'fanny'; Ann Maurice referred to a bum-bag as a fanny-pack on British TV and the country nearly ground to a halt!

But in certain parts of the UK - such as Scotland - the language still defeats me. Up there you're likely to be asked 'Is it a child or a girl?' when a new baby arrives, and 'Would you like lamb or beast?' at a meal. Beast=beef, which you could probably guess, but you have to stop and think about it.

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tekalynn April 28 2010, 07:17:58 UTC
I know the meaning of "ringing changes" in an idiomatic sense, and I know what it literally means when I stop to parse it out, but it's not a metaphor that has life to me. It's only thanks to Dorothy Sayers that I have any kind of mental image to associate.

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seawasp April 28 2010, 12:58:14 UTC
I'd always heard it as "ringing in the changes".

To me, it's a little EASIER to deal with the various UK-derived dialects because they at least ARE from another country. I know that sometimes I will use a word either that they don't know, or that they will interpret very differently.

It's dealing with the dialects *IN* the USA that I have a problem with, because I make the assumption that they're speaking the same language, and sometimes they aren't.

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poeticalpanther April 28 2010, 18:06:17 UTC
No, it's definitely 'to ring the changes'; I hear it most often in football journalism (that's our football, not your bizarre 'don't touch it with your feet' version), when, say, an owner "cleans house" as might be more commonly said here, firing the staff and replacing the lot.

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cmcmck April 28 2010, 09:07:14 UTC
I now know not to offer to knock you up or offer you a fag, for instance?

And I know not to use the term Durex for condoms in Australia (you'll be given a roll of adhesive tape, known as 'sellotape' here- an example of a brand getting in to nomenclature like 'hoover' here for a vacuum cleaner and 'frigidaire' with you for a refigerator :o)

We really are two nations divided by the same language.........

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tekalynn April 28 2010, 20:12:36 UTC
For me, it's not those particular vocabulary differences, which can be learned fairly readily. I'm intrigued by the differences he sees in UK vs US "nature" (the natural realm, in this context) and "home", for example. I had never thought of a line like "He makes his home in Arizona," to be particularly US English. I know about UK vs US "homely", which is a different matter, but I don't understand the nuances he finds in "home", and I would love to know what he's referring to.

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cmcmck April 28 2010, 20:24:36 UTC
I know what you mean- although it isn't a usual UK useage either. In English english it's likely to be 's/he's from' or 'comes from' or if a person is living away from their home area it'd be 's/he lives in'. f'rinstance, I come from Rochester (that's my original home town) but I live in Gillingham.

Scottish english (my other half is a Scot) is more likely to use constructions like 's/he belongs to' or 'lives to'

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theficklepickle April 28 2010, 20:42:04 UTC
A Liverpudlian friend of mine floored me with a remark about a building that 'went under' a new supermarket, i.e it was demolished to make way for it. I'd never heard that before.

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ptyx April 28 2010, 10:18:59 UTC
It's a very interesting article! Thanks for sharing. As a non-native English speaker, most of those nuances are a complete mystery to me. I don't know enough of any of the English speaking countries to really understand most of the differences.

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taraxoxo April 28 2010, 10:20:19 UTC
I think there are enough subcultures in the English speaking world to create similar divisions even in one region itself, let alone two countries.

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ekaterin24 April 28 2010, 12:52:13 UTC
I pride myself on knowing a lot of Britishisms through reading a great deal of British novels (mostly fantasy and classic mystery) and watching Britcoms, but I still get confused by some things my British Internet friends. Candies ("treacle" is pretty much "caramel" isn't it? or is that "toffee"?) and political & rugby/football terms are the hardest for me.

I truly pity English-language learners, especially here in the US where any English they've ever learned is probably British English. The library where I work has books on American idioms to help our many immigrant patrons through the minefield of American English.

Within the US, I find regionalisms aren't quite so bad as accents. After 13 years in Maryland (the edge of "the South") I still sometimes have to ask people with deep-South accents to repeat what they've said.

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cmcmck April 28 2010, 16:10:53 UTC
I'm first language English english but also have immediate Italian ancestry and immediate ancestors from parts of England with 'interesting' local dialects, like Sunderland in the North East and Stafford in the 'Black Country' of the Midlands although I was bought up in the 'deep southeast' county of Kent. I also lived in Belgium for a time. This has left me with an accent and useages which people often find hard to pick-although it's indisputably southern English at one level. I've even been accused of being Australian!

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theficklepickle April 28 2010, 20:43:33 UTC
I've even been accused of being Australian!

Me too. I have a mix of London and Yorkshire accents.

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tekalynn April 28 2010, 20:09:27 UTC
"molasses" = "treacle", I think.

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