My View: What I see as the Heart of the Matter
The last line on drwex most excellent summation of his views is what I wonder any social community can come to some basic agreement of...
If we cannot find a way to work with each other - despite our different frameworks - to deal with an abuser and social gatherings then we have a pretty deep problem.In my LiveJournal alone (and I certainly don't have ( Read more... )
If we cannot find a way to work with each other - despite our different frameworks - to deal with an abuser and social gatherings then we have a pretty deep problem.In my LiveJournal alone (and I certainly don't have ( Read more... )
Then there's another view that I think aroraborealis has articulated, which seems to say that people make mistakes and it's important to understand those mistakes and separate out people who are mistaken, who are honestly trying to redeem their mistakes and so on. Early on, Song noted that part of her attempt to settle with Judah involved him agreeing to admit his actions and take anger management counseling.
I think that this second view would support a rule (and again, I think Song has written along these lines) they would like to see a person who hasn't taken such steps kept out of the group until such steps are taken.
I think a significant chunk of the disagreement between the two sides in this dispute is over whether Judah falls into one or the other view. People have referred to his behavior within their sight or in the time since his attack on Song. In response, Song has pointed to a model of domestic violence patterning and others have pointed out that most rapists are not guilty of single attacks but show a pattern of behaviors.
Enh, I'm just repeating what others have said and I'm not sure I'm adding anything so I'll stop here.
(*) and here's where I check my privilege card and say, yep it's my privilege that lets me do this. If I was not in such a privileged position I might feel differently.
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I think it is unrealistic to believe that any community of significant size and poorly defined membership can achieve consensus on complex questions like: Did the reported events actually occur as described? Does the behavior in question constitute abuse? Has the abuser properly acknowledged his or her culpability? Is he/she sufficiently contrite? Has he/she taken appropriate actions to prevent reoccurrence? Is it safe to allow the abuser to socialize with us, with our friends who haven't been warned, or with our children?
I think that we have to accept that each person needs to answer those sorts of questions for him/herself, based on his/her knowledge, beliefs and personal experiences. We should understand that people's answers may change over time as the situation evolves. At times, there will be people who feel strongly about opposing answers -- that is unavoidable.
Perhaps the best we can do is to respect everyone's right to reach his/her own conclusions, and realize that holding different views on these issues does not make anyone a bad person. We should try to accept that each of us has the right to decide who we invite to our homes, whether we attend (or stay at) a given event, whether to socialize with a given person, and whether to warn others about the situation.
[Please note: absolutely nothing in this post is specific to Shira or Judah. I don't know either of them well, and I do not know the details of that situation well enough to comment on it.]
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As the conversation has continued, this is the one thing that wish more people would agree on. Respect for everyone's right to reach their own conclusions.
We are not all going to agree. Too many different viewpoints and experiences.
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