The point of this meme is to emphasize the responsibility of rape lies on the rapist. The responsibility for any crime lies on the criminal, and it's usually only with rape that people make the cruel mistake of blaming the victim.
Don't tell your women friends how to be safe and avoid rape. DOWNRIGHT LIE!! EVERYONE should know how to make themselves safe, and defend themselves. Tell the world!!!I think you may be missing the point slightly. There is no way to be safe, and implying that there are ways to be safe, through dress, attitude, or training, is a lie. Simple as that. If someone tells you 'this is how to be safe from rape' they are lying
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Example - Condoms aren't safe, but they are safer. Taking precautions to reduce your risk, not just of rape, but mugging, assault ect, is very important. It won't stop you getting raped, but it will reduce the likelyhood of it happening, just like putting your mobile in your bag won't stop somone from nicking it, but reduce the chances of it happening.
I said at the start I never blame a woman for being raped. In a perfect world we could all do what we want, wear what we want, get as drunk as we want and know that we'll be safe, but this just isn't the case, and suggesting it's OK to act like that is foolish and quite dangerous.
The peadophile thing is my feeling that adults have an understanding of sex, rape, and that some people can be very cruel just becuse they want to. Children learn these things as they grow up, to force rape on someone that dosen't even understand what's being done to them is even cruel and evil IMHO.
'safe' and 'safer' is a fine distinction, but it's one that should be made, both with rape and condoms.
The peadophile thing is my feeling that adults have an understanding of sex, rape, and that some people can be very cruel just becuse they want to. Children learn these things as they grow up, to force rape on someone that dosen't even understand what's being done to them is even cruel and evil IMHO.
Well, I think it's pretty cruel and evil to force rape on anyone, whether they understand it or not.
I was trying to say that I think all rape is cruel, but that I feel it is even crueler to inflict it on someone that doesn't even uderstand what's going on, or even that it's wrong.
That's an interesting point. There's a fair bit of evidence that a lot of rape trauma doesn't come from the rape per se, but from the woman's view of it. A woman who is not ashamed and sees it as just another form of violence inflicted is less likely to be traumatized by it.
So, perhaps, it is less cruel to rape someone who doesn't see it as worse than being punched repeatedly?
"perhaps, it is less cruel to rape someone who doesn't see it as worse than being punched repeatedly?"
It probably is. I saw a post by someone about this saying they'd rahter be killed than have to live with having been raped. Personally I think that's overracting - but then I'm not her. But it doesn't take away from the fact that a mentally mature adult has the knowlage of what rape is, and knows that you should/can go to the police, doctors, counseler. A kid doesn't, that's why I think it's worse.
I think we have a culture at the moment where it's right to be fearful of certain things, being careful about not walking down certain streets or whatever should be a basic survival thing. If you're not careful, you will increase your chances of being attacked, and that's probably not a sensible thing. You wouldn't walk in the middle of a battlefield and expect not to get shot because guns are bad and people shouldn't fire them
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I'm the type of bloke that believes in standing on the outside of the path when walking with children, so that if a car comes off the road I'm more likely to get hit first. I'd also teach a child not to walk near the edge of the pavement. Yes, cars should stay on the road, and people shouldn't ever get drunk or pass out and come off onto the pavement... but it can and does happen and I'd seek to minimise that risk.
Difference being, while you'll get blamed if you're drunk and fall off the pavement, you'll not get blamed for having been on the pavement if a car comes of the road. Whereas with rape, if while doing something perfectly legal and inherently non-dangerous (wearing a short skirt, flirting, drinking) you get raped, you could still be blamed.
There's nothing wrong with walking on the pavement, and I'm not going to stop walking on the pavement for fear of a car hitting me. Better to advocate safer driving, no?
Yes, but would you walk on the edge of the pavement of a busy road when it's known that accidents happen in that area?
Unravelling my original point here, the meme suggests women shouldn't take care of themselves or shouldn't be advised to. I think personally think that's a bit of a blazé outlook.
To be honest I don't think broadcasting like this on LJ really helps at all, except for people who are pretty much like minded on the core issues by default (there's a reason people add each other as friends) winding up splitting hairs and semantics.
I'll stay as I was I think, unaffected by this meme, and I'll continue to look out for people, stay careful. I'll fight for the better world by my actions, and by not tolerating the problems. You might not be able to see the implications I did, I guess we have different understandings of sexism and equality.
It's sexist to assume all men are rapists! Instead, we should advise women to wear longer skirts, because God knows those crucial inches are the difference between a man being a rapist and a nice guy.
The meme is sayin 'some men rape. how women behave will not affect whether they are raped' The contrary point appears to be 'a women acting incorrectly can make a perfectly normal man into a rapist'
I think point two is much more denigratory towards men, frankly.
The meme doesn't say "some men", it actually goes on to inform you to tell your sons, and pretty much says to tell every other male you may know. The implication being that they need telling. Whatever the point being made, two 'wrongs' do not make a right here
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You've missed the point that both me and LGD have made all the way through this post.
Neither of us would say it's OK to be raped, or that the woman is at fault, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't take measures to put yourself at less risk.
Looking both ways before you cross the road won't STOP you getting hit by a car, but it will REDUCE the chance of it.
A few seconds thought about the fact that the world isn't a safe place (men AND women) will put you at much less risk of rape, assault, mugging, abuse etc. You can't stop it, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't bother trying to.
tankgirlinblack, don't wear your corset in public. It's clearly a sexy outfit and men will think you want attention. I've seen you quite drunk, that puts you in danger. Stop it. You'll be safer if you don't walk home alone, I know you've been hassled before so you know it's dangerous.
Yup, I've helped there, and I bet it wasn't patronising at all!
Don't tell your women friends how to be safe and avoid rape.
DOWNRIGHT LIE!! EVERYONE should know how to make themselves safe, and defend themselves. Tell the world!!!I think you may be missing the point slightly. There is no way to be safe, and implying that there are ways to be safe, through dress, attitude, or training, is a lie. Simple as that. If someone tells you 'this is how to be safe from rape' they are lying ( ... )
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Taking precautions to reduce your risk, not just of rape, but mugging, assault ect, is very important. It won't stop you getting raped, but it will reduce the likelyhood of it happening, just like putting your mobile in your bag won't stop somone from nicking it, but reduce the chances of it happening.
I said at the start I never blame a woman for being raped.
In a perfect world we could all do what we want, wear what we want, get as drunk as we want and know that we'll be safe, but this just isn't the case, and suggesting it's OK to act like that is foolish and quite dangerous.
The peadophile thing is my feeling that adults have an understanding of sex, rape, and that some people can be very cruel just becuse they want to. Children learn these things as they grow up, to force rape on someone that dosen't even understand what's being done to them is even cruel and evil IMHO.
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The peadophile thing is my feeling that adults have an understanding of sex, rape, and that some people can be very cruel just becuse they want to. Children learn these things as they grow up, to force rape on someone that dosen't even understand what's being done to them is even cruel and evil IMHO.
Well, I think it's pretty cruel and evil to force rape on anyone, whether they understand it or not.
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So, perhaps, it is less cruel to rape someone who doesn't see it as worse than being punched repeatedly?
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It probably is.
I saw a post by someone about this saying they'd rahter be killed than have to live with having been raped. Personally I think that's overracting - but then I'm not her.
But it doesn't take away from the fact that a mentally mature adult has the knowlage of what rape is, and knows that you should/can go to the police, doctors, counseler.
A kid doesn't, that's why I think it's worse.
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Thank you!!
Exactly my point.
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Whereas with rape, if while doing something perfectly legal and inherently non-dangerous (wearing a short skirt, flirting, drinking) you get raped, you could still be blamed.
There's nothing wrong with walking on the pavement, and I'm not going to stop walking on the pavement for fear of a car hitting me. Better to advocate safer driving, no?
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Unravelling my original point here, the meme suggests women shouldn't take care of themselves or shouldn't be advised to. I think personally think that's a bit of a blazé outlook.
To be honest I don't think broadcasting like this on LJ really helps at all, except for people who are pretty much like minded on the core issues by default (there's a reason people add each other as friends) winding up splitting hairs and semantics.
I'll stay as I was I think, unaffected by this meme, and I'll continue to look out for people, stay careful. I'll fight for the better world by my actions, and by not tolerating the problems. You might not be able to see the implications I did, I guess we have different understandings of sexism and equality.
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Instead, we should advise women to wear longer skirts, because God knows those crucial inches are the difference between a man being a rapist and a nice guy.
The meme is sayin 'some men rape. how women behave will not affect whether they are raped'
The contrary point appears to be 'a women acting incorrectly can make a perfectly normal man into a rapist'
I think point two is much more denigratory towards men, frankly.
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Neither of us would say it's OK to be raped, or that the woman is at fault, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't take measures to put yourself at less risk.
Looking both ways before you cross the road won't STOP you getting hit by a car, but it will REDUCE the chance of it.
A few seconds thought about the fact that the world isn't a safe place (men AND women) will put you at much less risk of rape, assault, mugging, abuse etc. You can't stop it, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't bother trying to.
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I've seen you quite drunk, that puts you in danger. Stop it.
You'll be safer if you don't walk home alone, I know you've been hassled before so you know it's dangerous.
Yup, I've helped there, and I bet it wasn't patronising at all!
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