There were a fair number of Hilary Clinton supporters that seemed to fall into the Birther camp back before the 2008 elections.
One could make a strong case that the Truther position is weaker than the Birther position precisely because of your points 2) and 3): faking birth documentation and keeping the fact a secret is almost inconceivably easier than conspiring to simultaneously hijack four airliners and use them to murder three thousand people, then keeping that a secret.
The point of the fake certificate, in the hypothetical where a fake certificate would be needed, would be to let Obama run for president. Politicians needing to hide dirty laundry is hardly a rare occurrence.
But why? What is so important about Obama? What can he do as president that any other president cannot do?
Why is Obama so special as to warrant such treatment?
Again, the attacks of 9/11 had clear political gain. Aside from the gain for Obama, what's the point? Why wouldn't John McCain (for example) have jumped all over this shit? Why would the losing opponent go along with it? What's in it for McCain?
1) Neither are Birthers, the idea first appeared in the Clinton primary campaign. This was one reason that that set of primaries was as bitter as it was.
2) No, actually there's an indication it furthered the attempts to pursue that agenda, Neoconservatism's led to two ongoing debacles to which Democrats have added a third.
3) Sure. There's only one way to be born, 9/11 was when Islamists discovered Kamikaze attacks as an attention-grabbing tactic just as they'd nabbed suicide bombing from the Tamil Tigers. Trutherism asserts an equally wide-ranging conspiracy to that required by Birtherism and both rest on certain extremely flawed basic assertions.
Planting the seed isn't the same as making a mass movement.
I mean, iirc, the first guy to say 9/11 was an inside job was French. I don't think we can call the Truther movement a French movement.
Why did HCR not stand a chance w/o Obama? Isn't HCR something that *everybody* agreed needed to be done, just they had different ideas about how to fix it? I mean, really now? Why the F is Obama special enough to warrant a conspiracy? Just why the HELL would John McCain have played along?
"Not at all. Especially not in the way Obama did it."
WHAT?? Are you capable of reading. Please, examine the last part of my quoted line above your quoted line. I admit that others would have "fixed" it by a different method. So *why* exactly did Obama need to get in to the office of white house? What did he do that couldn't have been done by any other politician?
Wanna bet what the polls are for Dems who think Obama wasn't born in the US?
People who have been tarred with the epithet "birther," for the most part, just wanted to see a birth certificate. On an ordinary level, this is just healthy Missouri "Show me-ism" that certainly would have been satisfied by the recently released documents had they been released two years ago. Sure there are a few truly crazy ones who have elaborate fantasies about how Obama's grandmother really gave birth to him and just passed him off as her daughter's in order to garner sympathy and a place on the 2008 GOP presidential ticket. Oh wait, that is something Andrew Sullivan would think... never mind
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(It was more than enough for me. IMO, since he was born to a mother who was a US citizen, he was a US citizen, full stop and this entire discussion is rendered moot.)
However, when people then asked to see the long form they were met with an avalanche of what can now only be described as lies. "It's lost." "It can't be released." "It doesn't exist, the short form is the whole thing." "The red tape is overwhelming." "Shut up." Etc. To people inclined to skepticism about Obama all of this was like catnip and drove some of them to conjecture well beyond the facts at hand. It should be noted that it took, apparently, two short one paragraph letters to the proper officials and the full birth certificate was promptly delivered. Volia. Why allow this farce to continue for 3 years when it was always in his power to end it in an afternoon of emails
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They must be psychics over there. And stupid psychics.
You can see the building behind the woman. The building that they are *discussing*.
Why/how did such inaccurate information get into the hands of the BBC? *before it happened*?
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One could make a strong case that the Truther position is weaker than the Birther position precisely because of your points 2) and 3): faking birth documentation and keeping the fact a secret is almost inconceivably easier than conspiring to simultaneously hijack four airliners and use them to murder three thousand people, then keeping that a secret.
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Just what the hell would the point of the Obama fake certificate be? To destroy America? There have to be easier ways to do that.
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Why is Obama so special as to warrant such treatment?
Again, the attacks of 9/11 had clear political gain. Aside from the gain for Obama, what's the point? Why wouldn't John McCain (for example) have jumped all over this shit? Why would the losing opponent go along with it? What's in it for McCain?
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2) No, actually there's an indication it furthered the attempts to pursue that agenda, Neoconservatism's led to two ongoing debacles to which Democrats have added a third.
3) Sure. There's only one way to be born, 9/11 was when Islamists discovered Kamikaze attacks as an attention-grabbing tactic just as they'd nabbed suicide bombing from the Tamil Tigers. Trutherism asserts an equally wide-ranging conspiracy to that required by Birtherism and both rest on certain extremely flawed basic assertions.
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I mean, iirc, the first guy to say 9/11 was an inside job was French. I don't think we can call the Truther movement a French movement.
Why did HCR not stand a chance w/o Obama? Isn't HCR something that *everybody* agreed needed to be done, just they had different ideas about how to fix it? I mean, really now? Why the F is Obama special enough to warrant a conspiracy? Just why the HELL would John McCain have played along?
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WHAT?? Are you capable of reading. Please, examine the last part of my quoted line above your quoted line. I admit that others would have "fixed" it by a different method. So *why* exactly did Obama need to get in to the office of white house? What did he do that couldn't have been done by any other politician?
Wanna bet what the polls are for Dems who think Obama wasn't born in the US?
Reply
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(It was more than enough for me. IMO, since he was born to a mother who was a US citizen, he was a US citizen, full stop and this entire discussion is rendered moot.)
However, when people then asked to see the long form they were met with an avalanche of what can now only be described as lies. "It's lost." "It can't be released." "It doesn't exist, the short form is the whole thing." "The red tape is overwhelming." "Shut up." Etc. To people inclined to skepticism about Obama all of this was like catnip and drove some of them to conjecture well beyond the facts at hand. It should be noted that it took, apparently, two short one paragraph letters to the proper officials and the full birth certificate was promptly delivered. Volia. Why allow this farce to continue for 3 years when it was always in his power to end it in an afternoon of emails ( ... )
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