Truthers v Birthers

May 01, 2011 20:14

This may well start a shit-show. Not looking to, but I realize the potential ( Read more... )

conspiracy, 9-11

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enders_shadow May 2 2011, 00:31:13 UTC
Well, there's the video I linked to, for starters.

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enders_shadow May 2 2011, 00:37:32 UTC
Uhhh. Seriously?

They must be psychics over there. And stupid psychics.

You can see the building behind the woman. The building that they are *discussing*.

Why/how did such inaccurate information get into the hands of the BBC? *before it happened*?

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usekh May 2 2011, 00:38:05 UTC
I heard reports a nuke went off, that the Whitehouse had been hit and all kinds of shit.

Both are conspiracy theories that rely on convoluted chains of people lying and the ability of multiple organizations to keep secrets. They are both bollocks that don't stand up to rational thought processes.

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enders_shadow May 2 2011, 00:39:20 UTC
Seriously? A NUKE?

Which numbskull news team said that? Do you have video?

I mean, it's not like BBC are the new kids on the block. You'd think they'd have basic new coverage down. Ya know, like, don't claim a building has collapsed when your cameras have it in sight?

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underlankers May 2 2011, 00:45:11 UTC
These kind of disasters never tend to be accurately reported at first hand.

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usekh May 2 2011, 00:48:07 UTC
Oh yeah I have video of something that happened at 2 in the morning here 10 fucking years ago.

Massive conspiracy theories like this don't pass the test of simple logic. You somehow have thousands of people from different walks of life, countries, political parties, jobs etc all agreeing to keep these secrets without ONE breaking ranks?

Get fucking real.

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enders_shadow May 2 2011, 00:49:48 UTC
I don't understand why people assume it would have taken thousands of people.

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usekh May 2 2011, 00:57:10 UTC
Because we have some idea of how large organisations work?

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enders_shadow May 2 2011, 00:59:49 UTC
But we all know the rule:

The more people know something, the less secret.

So if I was a conspirator I'd ensure as few people as possible knew what was going on.

I'd have to imagine that'd be easy when you are the men in charge.

Also: *if* 9/11 was an inside job, do you think *ANYBODY* who played *ANY* role in it would want to out themselves?

Seriously? You'd have a VERY powerful incentive to STFU.

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usekh May 2 2011, 01:06:41 UTC
The more people know something, the less secret.
Exactly why large scale conspiracy theories are total bollocks. You couldn't do something like this with a small cabal of people, it just isn't possible.

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enders_shadow May 2 2011, 01:14:40 UTC
Why isn't it possible?

I'll give that maybe 100 people needed to know. But beyond that, lies and deception account for everyone else "involved".

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usekh May 2 2011, 01:16:57 UTC
So the structural engineers who studied it? The emergency service personal who were on the ground? The air traffic controllers? All the people around and working at the buildings? The reporters on the ground, the bosses of all of these people etc etc etc

Anyway there is no point arguing with a conspiracy theorist, as you are by definition debating with the insane. So what is the point?

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enders_shadow May 2 2011, 01:23:01 UTC
"Anyway there is no point arguing with a conspiracy theorist, as you are by definition debating with the insane. So what is the point?"

WOW. Shut down the debate before they get a word in. That's an open mind.

You do know minds are like parachutes, right? They only work when open.

None of the people, BTW, in your first sentence were required to know anything about the plan.

The cabal could have been composed of higher ups who used lies and deceptions to manipulate their underlings into doing stuff that they didn't know was connected in any way to covering up their deception.

Also, you should be a little more open to conspiracy facts cause, ya know, conspiracies happen. And not all conspiracy theories are wrong.

Familiarize yourself with Watergate and Tuskegee and MK Ultra and....

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underlankers May 2 2011, 01:01:22 UTC
At minimum to get 19 Saudis over the Atlantic would have required the collaboration of the CIA and the Saudi monarchy's intelligence agency. And of course US INS and counter-terrorism experts. To ensure that nobody stopped the hijackers on that one day would have meant ensuring every security guard on those airports would have needed to collaborate. To keep the Pentagon unaware after the sequence of terror attacks dating back to the 1980s would have required working with multiple distinct bureaucracies in a notoriously rigid and inflexible bureaucratic system.

We're talking thousands at minimum. And tens of thousands of unknowing collaborators, the most useful kind.

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