The purpose of school.
There were not as many responses to the 2nd post as the first. But, I think that something is starting to develop.
(Purpose.) What's wrong with the way public schools are used?
The first thing to fix about schools is the PERCEPTION of the value of schools, whether the kids think they can REALLY be successful, and to take it seriously. If you dont have serious kids, then nothing else will really work. --chessdev
How do people perceive the concept of schooling? Some view it as a stop-gap measure to prevent total ignorance among those who can't afford a private education:
Public schools should be used like welfare. It should be the place where those who can't afford to learn a skill get some basic education as an effort to improve their status later. Other than that, all schools should be private. Then they can be tailored to the actual needs of the students. That is the fundamental problem with public schools, it's trying to be everything to everyone and it's impossible to do it. It's the same reason socialism fails.gunslnger
Though, I think many of us would like schooling to take on a less narrow function.
I think most people would agree that the 'purpose' of school is to give/impart/help kids learn the tools and skills they need to succeed as adults, primarily in the job department. Where we go from there depends on what skills we think adults need, what we think is useful for getting jobs, and how we thinks such things are best taught.
...It's not that success is entirely about jobs, so much as that being able to put food on the table and a roof over one's head are priorities for most people. Does that mean we should send kindergarteners off to Resumes 101? of course not. little_e_
Possibly a MUCH less narrow function.
I don't like the idea that to succeed as an adult = succeed in employment. There's more to being an adult than being able to make money.anfalicious
As a high school (and later college) math teacher I would like to weigh in with the observation that the most successful students are not overly focused on their grades, nor are they terribly concerned about what the mathematics I teach "could be used for in the real world" -- The have respect for learning that isn't based on a carrot/stick type of mentality.
I worked in a school where 80% of the students were poor for a few years. I could make many comments about the students, but I want to make one about the teachers. The teachers, including me were desperate to activate motivation in our students. Some teachers used the stick, they told sad stories about working in McDonald's and made the kids make spread-sheets to calculate the cost of having a child at age 15. Other teachers used carrots-- field trips if the class test average improved. Guest speakers who "made it out of the ghetto." They would tell the kids "you can do it too, I have a nice car and I dress like this all the time. I know you have what it takes!"
What struck me about all of these efforts was how degrading they all seemed. I never heard any things of the sort when I was in school. I thought-- if there are any self motivated learners in our school we are shutting them down with this stuff. What it is really saying is "we know you won't learn this because you are not curious or smart."
But, if education's primary purpose is to help people get jobs, then isn't that doing the same thing if only in a less crass way? Could thinking of school in this way change the perception of the value of schools that chessdev mentioned? Degrees, high school, Bachelors, Masters ... are often used to screen applicants in ways that don't relate directly to the content of the degree. So, maybe should we take gunslnger 's idea and make school emergency free instruction on the basics for the poor?
I don't know if the basics are enough, though, to equip a person to participate and an informed citizen in electing representatives.
(Purpose.) What's wrong with the way public schools are used?
The first thing to fix about schools is the PERCEPTION of the value of schools, whether the kids think they can REALLY be successful, and to take it seriously. If you dont have serious kids, then nothing else will really work. --chessdev
How do people perceive the concept of schooling? Some view it as a stop-gap measure to prevent total ignorance among those who can't afford a private education:
Public schools should be used like welfare. It should be the place where those who can't afford to learn a skill get some basic education as an effort to improve their status later. Other than that, all schools should be private. Then they can be tailored to the actual needs of the students. That is the fundamental problem with public schools, it's trying to be everything to everyone and it's impossible to do it. It's the same reason socialism fails.gunslnger
Though, I think many of us would like schooling to take on a less narrow function.
I think most people would agree that the 'purpose' of school is to give/impart/help kids learn the tools and skills they need to succeed as adults, primarily in the job department. Where we go from there depends on what skills we think adults need, what we think is useful for getting jobs, and how we thinks such things are best taught.
...It's not that success is entirely about jobs, so much as that being able to put food on the table and a roof over one's head are priorities for most people. Does that mean we should send kindergarteners off to Resumes 101? of course not. little_e_
Possibly a MUCH less narrow function.
I don't like the idea that to succeed as an adult = succeed in employment. There's more to being an adult than being able to make money.anfalicious
As a high school (and later college) math teacher I would like to weigh in with the observation that the most successful students are not overly focused on their grades, nor are they terribly concerned about what the mathematics I teach "could be used for in the real world" -- The have respect for learning that isn't based on a carrot/stick type of mentality.
I worked in a school where 80% of the students were poor for a few years. I could make many comments about the students, but I want to make one about the teachers. The teachers, including me were desperate to activate motivation in our students. Some teachers used the stick, they told sad stories about working in McDonald's and made the kids make spread-sheets to calculate the cost of having a child at age 15. Other teachers used carrots-- field trips if the class test average improved. Guest speakers who "made it out of the ghetto." They would tell the kids "you can do it too, I have a nice car and I dress like this all the time. I know you have what it takes!"
What struck me about all of these efforts was how degrading they all seemed. I never heard any things of the sort when I was in school. I thought-- if there are any self motivated learners in our school we are shutting them down with this stuff. What it is really saying is "we know you won't learn this because you are not curious or smart."
But, if education's primary purpose is to help people get jobs, then isn't that doing the same thing if only in a less crass way? Could thinking of school in this way change the perception of the value of schools that chessdev mentioned? Degrees, high school, Bachelors, Masters ... are often used to screen applicants in ways that don't relate directly to the content of the degree. So, maybe should we take gunslnger 's idea and make school emergency free instruction on the basics for the poor?
I don't know if the basics are enough, though, to equip a person to participate and an informed citizen in electing representatives.