Under L sez on morality in politics:

[underlankers]

I think too often these days politics is affected by a simple unwillingness to either see or to face up to the factors that mark it for what it is in a crude, effective pattern.

Comments

[notmrgarrison]

[paft]

nmg: It can certainly be better than a 21 year sentence.

And if it turns out the person convicted was innocent?

What then? A nice wreath for their gravesite?

[sophia_sadek]

Even in the case of a guilty perpetrator, the death penalty does little beyond satisfying a thirst for revenge.

[allhatnocattle]

Sentencing to death is not punishment, it's revenge. Pictures above make that clear. You hate people like Timothy McVeigh and want them to suffer. That doesn't sound like the providence of any fair and just society.

[sophia_sadek]

Do you truly advocate the notion that might makes right, or are you saying that it is the popular notion of proper governance?

Here is an interesting song that advocates the doctrine of might makes right:

[underlankers]

I do not advocate it, but rather note that it is the realistic determiner of good and evil and right and wrong. What I'd advocate would be a world based on a different, alternate principle.

[sophia_sadek]

Are you familiar with the Socratic definition of justice?

[underlankers]

All I know of Socrates is that he loved to ask questions but never answered them.

[allhatnocattle]

Oppressors tend to crumble under their own brutality. Holding onto power thru violence takes tremendous support, support that must have little to no ambition, otherwise a coup occurs.

Even dictators like Castro have realized that to hold on to power they must have a sense of fairness and justice, even if it's a little warped from our perspective.

One way dictators try to hold onto power and eliminate ambition in the ranks is to elevate herr leader to cult like status, where emulation is impossible (There can only be only one (God))

[underlankers]

I would argue that holding onto violence is the last resort, as you're right: regimes that rely purely on brutality don't tend to last long and they die by inches.

[sandwichwarrior]

You'd think more politicians would read "the Prince"

[underlankers]

You'd think even more would read Machiavelli's other writings where he calls for a republic dependent on citizen-soldiery.....

[harry_beast]

If the efficiency with which force is applied determines what is good or evil, then the death penalty should be judged on its efficiency, not on whether or not you consider it "irrational".

[underlankers]

That doesn't exactly follow, as each situation has its own criteria to follow by this standard. The death penalty has never been a deterrent to crime in any point in history no matter how it's been done, so it's always been inefficient.

[notmrgarrison]

What about the more serious crimes? Theft, burglary, violence, drug trafficking and bribery are all punishable by death. No, not the syringe, or the electric chair, or the shooting squad. Death by hanging, like in the good old times. All manifestations of ethnic hatred are punished, even when it is done on the Internet. And there are plenty of Internet inspectors who lurk around the blogs and forums. By the way, these rules apply to foreign tourists as well. There have been 400 effective death penalties between 1991-2004, which is among the highest rates per capita in the world. But the crime rates are among the lowest, of course.

Go straighten her out.

[underlankers]

I said in that thread that this can work on a small scale. On a big one, Terror does not build a suitable foundation for running an empire.

[root_fu]

Good post.

[ddstory]

The only thing you've resorted to is going around posts and saying "good post", now?

I guess that's better than the "atheism hurr durr" option, though.

[root_fu]

Its good to see people thinking about things as opposed to googling a number of random facts anyone could find on the 1nt3rn37z and assembling them into something resembling a good post. ((((:

Just my preference...

[ddstory]

Or just parroting some talking points that they've heard elsewhere.