In This World and the Next Chapter 14

[szaleniec1000]

ITWATN has no surprises left, or so I thought. We've had Percy being fed to Fluffy for nothing at all. We've had Ron (but not Ginny, Neville or Luna) being inherently prone to blood supremacy, which justifies a group of nominal adults victimising an eleven-year-old. We've had, of course, a "shit wizard" being somehow able to overpower Hermione

Comments

[szaleniec1000]

https://web.archive.org/web/20060316221637/http://www.jkrowling.com/textonly/en/faq_view.cfm?id=105

Veritaserum works best upon the unsuspecting, the vulnerable and those insufficiently skilled (in one way or another) to protect themselves against it. Barty Crouch had been attacked before the potion was given to him and was still very groggy, otherwise he could have employed a range of measures against the Potion - he might have sealed his own throat and faked a declaration of innocence, transformed the Potion into something else before it touched his lips, or employed Occlumency against its effects. In other words, just like every other kind of magic within the books, Veritaserum is not infallible. As some wizards can prevent themselves being affected, and others cannot, it is an unfair and unreliable tool to use at a trial.

"Sirius might have volunteered to take the potion had he been given the chance, but he was never offered it. Mr. Crouch senior, power mad and increasingly unjust in the way he was treating suspects, threw him into Azkaban on the (admittedly rather convincing) testimony of many eyewitnesses. The sad fact is that even if Sirius had told the truth under the influence of the Potion, Mr. Crouch could still have insisted that he was using trickery to render himself immune to it.

The wiki likens it to polygraph tests not being admissible in Muggle courts.

[greener221]

Most of those means involve wands, though.

Additionally, Rowling has no right to be listened to after her books are already published.

[szaleniec1000]

Fair enough. It's my opinion, however, that it makes sense and is consistent with what we see in the books.

[greener221]

So what? Author's Saving Throws are irrelevant to the immediate impressions and communication of the given source material. It's no more valid than the million and seven fanfics that turn Dumbledore and the Weasleys into rape-happy demons from hell trying to steal Harry's money through deception rather than just raiding Gringotts themselves.

[szaleniec1000]

Whether or not you think that it matters if it's the original author or not, there's a difference between something that logically expands on what we've seen in the books and going off on a wild tangent to justify character bashing. And regardless of who wrote it, it's a logical extrapolation from the fact that in canon we don't see Veritaserum used in trials, let alone treated as the absolute solidest form of evidence. The way ITWATN handles it, with Snape's testimony able to flip the entire wizarding world's public opinion overnight, is patently ridiculous.

[greener221]

Then again, Rowling kinda enabled people to do stuff like that when she introduced things like truth serums, mind control, and a potion that bends reality to your benefit.

[sickbritkid2]

Felix Felicis doesn't bend reality. It just makes you incredibly lucky.

Odds are, if the Death Eaters who attacked Hogwarts the night Dumbledore was killed had known that Ginny, Hermione, and the others had used Felix Felicis, I wouldn't doubt that they'd have had a means to counter it. They didn't know, however, and as a result Dumbledore's Army was able to narrowly avoid getting killed that night(IIRC, Ginny suffers a couple of close-calls that night as does Hermione).

Most of those means involve wands, though.

Wandless magic is a thing. It was established at least as early as Philosopher's/Sorcerer's Stone.

Additionally, Rowling has no right to be listened to after her books are already published.

Except yes, she does. She's the series' creator, for fuck's sake.

[greener221]

It makes you incredibly lucky to the point where reality bends to your benefit. Same difference. And we're never told there's a counter to Felix Felicis, therefore we should assume there is not.

Yeah, Quirrel snaps his fingers to make fire appear, but beyond that, we never see any controlled wandless magic. The closest we get is the ability to fly, which only Snape and Voldemort have ever accomplished. The basis is complete quicksand.

Death of the Author.

[sickbritkid2]

Yeah, Quirrel snaps his fingers to make fire appear, but beyond that, we never see any controlled wandless magic.

It's also spoken about in the intro to Chamber of Secrets, where he wishes he could unlock Hedwig's cage and send her to Ron and Hermione with pleas of help(only his wand is locked in his old cupboard downstairs with the rest of his school things, so he'd have to do it by hand) but can't because of he's underage.

It makes you incredibly lucky to the point where reality bends to your benefit. Same difference.

Except it doesn't. It doesn't make Slughorn give Harry the needed memory, it simply provides Harry with the perception to know exactly WHAT he has to do in order to manipulate Slughorn to do so.

Same thing with Dumbledore's Army suffering close calls at the end of Prince. It's not making the Death Eaters miss, it's just(in all likelihood, anyway) enhanced the consumers' perception to allow them to better dodge potential deaths.

If Felix Felicis didn't have any counters, then it would be a far more widespread potion than it is(regardless of the supposed difficulty that goes into brewing it).

Death of the Author.

An immature cop-out used by childish fans to justify disregarding the creator's own word whenever it doesn't conform to their personal headcanon?

What of it?

[greener221]

It's also spoken about in the intro to Chamber of Secrets, where he wishes he could unlock Hedwig's cage and send her to Ron and Hermione with pleas of help(only his wand is locked in his old cupboard downstairs with the rest of his school things, so he'd have to do it by hand) but can't because of he's underage

That was done to establish the rules of magic for new readers. And all it said was "Magic can only be used when holding a wand", which is ridiculous.

Except it doesn't. It doesn't make Slughorn give Harry the needed memory, it simply provides Harry with the perception to know exactly WHAT he has to do in order to manipulate Slughorn to do so.

*citation needed*

If Felix Felicis didn't have any counters, then it would be a far more widespread potion than it is(regardless of the supposed difficulty that goes into brewing it).

Or you could admit it was pulled out of nowhere as a means of robbing Harry of his own agency even in a scene without Dumbledore doing everything for him.

An immature cop-out used by childish fans to justify disregarding the creator's own word whenever it doesn't conform to their personal headcanon?

No, that's the wrong application of that word. The proper application is to see unfortunate implications in morality and realize what retcons are.

[sickbritkid2]

Your pretentious use of "citation needed" is really grating on my nerves. Especially when your taking things I said that were clearly implied by the text and attached that nonsensical phrase to them in some vain attempt to get a leg up on me.

[greener221]

That's because you're incapable of backing up any claim you make beyond "b-but Rowling is the perfect writer and knows everything!".

Now respond to what I asked of you.

[sickbritkid2]

I never said Rowling was perfect, boyo. Don't put words in my mouth to suit your biases against JK Rowling, mmkay?

And no, I'm not responding to a bunch of pretentious bullshit simply to satisfy your need to create and prolong needless arguments in this comments section.

[greener221]

By saying she apparently has all the answers to every single plothole in her head even if she never reveals it, you imply treating her as perfect and all-knowing.

[sickbritkid2]

That's not saying she's perfect. And who else would know more about the going-ons of her own goddamn series than the fucking creator?

I'm done arguing with you and your pathetic need to nitpick the Harry Potter series to fulfill your self-righteous clawing for attention. Stop responding.

[greener221]

An editor, maybe?