Aaron I'm not really sure what to say here. I have heard something from you the likes of which I would never hear. That is, not that you have doubts about your faith, but you saying here are my reasons, please dont argue with them our debate them at all. Im not sure that is consistant with the stated nature of this LJ, and I know it is diametrically opposed to the way I normally operate. That being said how honest of a reaction do you wat from me? Id be lying if I said this didn't change our friendship, that would be impossible, yet I would never allow this to define it. Its clear that you have put a lot of thought into this, but I would be lying if I told you I was completely surprised. I always knew you doubted at least to some extenet, ad I think I saw some element of this coming when you made this journal, even if I would never have identified it.
Like I said I feel there are certain things I have to say, regardless of your wishes which I will otherside continue to respect. I guess I would say you should stop reading here if you need to although I won't be too in depth. Until I know you are ready to hear it.
Would you believe me if I said that most of those things you listed are things I struggled with in the past few years. My belief in Christ had not been rock solid or fundamental the year before I went to Florida and that was a time that I had to deal with a lot of my doubt. I want you to understand that I am not trying to sound arrogant here, or discount the power of your feelings on this, but the remainder are almost without exception, things I have heard argued by Atheists or people who were searching before, few or none of which I would feel hard pressed to refute. My point is that, firstly you can count on the fact that these are questions I would have had to answer in a satisfatory way for myself, or else I would no longer be a Christian, because you know the way I think. Second, I know we have talked about this before, it sucks when Christians who know nothing of logic and apologetics try to defend the faith, because all you ever get is the same emotional bullcrap spewed out and it means nothing to people who are searching. Im sorry but I hold you to a higher standard than a lot of my friends, because I know you are intelligent, and I would hope that you have not done a 180 and accepted that as the stock argument. The real debate is out there. Its in my mind and on the internet if you are willing to find it.
Basically Aaron your struggle here has put me in a tight spot. I want to be supportive as a friend, but also as a Christian I want desperately to help you, yet have you not asked me to stand by and do nothing? I'm not sure of my ability to do that. Only you have the power to open your mind to the answers. Declaring beforehand that people must not try to convince you shields you from learning anything from others. Basically when and if you ever feel that you are ready to try that, I am ready to tackle this post point by point. I could do no less for a friend.
First I would like to tell you to make sure Dave reads this whole thing.
I wish I had worded things differently. There is more to this whole thing than just the arguments I listed, as I already mentioned. But if you want to tackle each one of these listed "complaints" I would enjoy it if it was at all different from what I am used to hearing. I just wanted to avoid an intervention or something when I got back. My pursuit is still for the truth, I have just become more pessimistic about finding it.
I put this whole post on my livejournal because I knew it would get read and allow for feedback, I didn't intend for it to be like the other topics with a lot of debate. It was meant to be separate but livejournal was just the best method of getting this information out there.
Don't worry, I've read it...I want to do some thinking before I respond...I'll probably just end up talking to you when you get back. Don't worry, it won't be an intervention, there are just some things that I'm curious about, and would like to discuss.
I understand, it was implied that more that had gone into it that was not explained. Even so I know no way to handle it but to answer what you have written. As I said before, since we talked about it at length, and you are maybe the only person I talked to about it, you should know how I feel about the people who try to defend the faith in the ways you mentioned. All to often they do more harm than good.
I respect you and know you well enough to know not to try to pull some sort of big event like an 'intervention'. You are probably the only person I imagine being as uncomfortable with that as I would be. I won't treat you any differently upon your return as I would have normally. With that being said, I feel that helping you find what I believe to be the truth in this situation is something I consider to be no less than a moral imperative.
I understand your feeling of obligation to show me what you believe to be true and I expected that when I wrote this post. I will say again that I have no problem discussing these things with anyone as long as it is done in earnest discussion rather than "you are wrong and here are the reasons why". Not that I would think you would ever do that but still think it should be mentioned. Also I don't want to jump into it right away when I get back but let the conversation come up a little more naturally. The reason I made this post rather than just tell everyone was because I was able to be more thorough and because I wanted to avoid the awkward situation of immediately having to answer all your guys' questions.
Since Aaron has said he wouldn't mind, I wanted to add that I would also enjoy a response to the complaints. Many of his arguments are mine as well, and I would be curious to see how you counter them, though I don't expect to be convinced.
Like I said I feel there are certain things I have to say, regardless of your wishes which I will otherside continue to respect. I guess I would say you should stop reading here if you need to although I won't be too in depth. Until I know you are ready to hear it.
Would you believe me if I said that most of those things you listed are things I struggled with in the past few years. My belief in Christ had not been rock solid or fundamental the year before I went to Florida and that was a time that I had to deal with a lot of my doubt. I want you to understand that I am not trying to sound arrogant here, or discount the power of your feelings on this, but the remainder are almost without exception, things I have heard argued by Atheists or people who were searching before, few or none of which I would feel hard pressed to refute. My point is that, firstly you can count on the fact that these are questions I would have had to answer in a satisfatory way for myself, or else I would no longer be a Christian, because you know the way I think. Second, I know we have talked about this before, it sucks when Christians who know nothing of logic and apologetics try to defend the faith, because all you ever get is the same emotional bullcrap spewed out and it means nothing to people who are searching. Im sorry but I hold you to a higher standard than a lot of my friends, because I know you are intelligent, and I would hope that you have not done a 180 and accepted that as the stock argument. The real debate is out there. Its in my mind and on the internet if you are willing to find it.
Basically Aaron your struggle here has put me in a tight spot. I want to be supportive as a friend, but also as a Christian I want desperately to help you, yet have you not asked me to stand by and do nothing? I'm not sure of my ability to do that. Only you have the power to open your mind to the answers. Declaring beforehand that people must not try to convince you shields you from learning anything from others. Basically when and if you ever feel that you are ready to try that, I am ready to tackle this post point by point. I could do no less for a friend.
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I wish I had worded things differently. There is more to this whole thing than just the arguments I listed, as I already mentioned. But if you want to tackle each one of these listed "complaints" I would enjoy it if it was at all different from what I am used to hearing. I just wanted to avoid an intervention or something when I got back. My pursuit is still for the truth, I have just become more pessimistic about finding it.
I put this whole post on my livejournal because I knew it would get read and allow for feedback, I didn't intend for it to be like the other topics with a lot of debate. It was meant to be separate but livejournal was just the best method of getting this information out there.
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I respect you and know you well enough to know not to try to pull some sort of big event like an 'intervention'. You are probably the only person I imagine being as uncomfortable with that as I would be. I won't treat you any differently upon your return as I would have normally. With that being said, I feel that helping you find what I believe to be the truth in this situation is something I consider to be no less than a moral imperative.
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