Pure Altruism

[synderon]

I'm over halfway through Final Fantasy 7 now. It had been quite a while since I had played through it and I had only done so once. I find myself appreciating it a lot more this time around. The story is much more complex and satisfying than I remembered. It's not that I didn't like it before, but I had just thought of it as just another FF game

Comments

[zovick_84]

Man...another big one. The distinction has to be made between altruistic behaviors and altruistic motivations. (I would assume people understand this, but I'm taking nothing for granted this time. :P) Certianly people can do things for no outward reward, we see it happen all the time, but as Erik said, they are often rewarded in some way (in his argument, a flood of chemicals producing some sort of positive emotional response). So while thier actions in the sense of the world may be altruistic, they always do it for thier own reasons. In psychology this is called psychological egoism, everyone acts completely out of thier own self intrest

[sargonepsilon]

Not to hurt your brain or anything, but if you think about it, being called to altruism by your deity make it impossible to be altruistic.

[mad_dog_bowers]

Not if you frame it the way that the Bible does. It may seem to be a loophole to you, I don't want to argue the point here, I will only state the way that I have always thought about it and the way I have seen it repeated theologically. Jesus commands that we should have agape love and wish to be good to others for their sake. (Love your brother and all that) If we do things because we want approval from God (or our chemistry) it is wrong in my opinion. (Justification by works = BS) We should as Christians strive for the point where we wish to do these things because of a genuine concern for others. Still, since we are not consciously aware of our brains in most cases, I can see the argument made that you are simply convincing yourself that you are not benefiting from your kindness. I have not finished arranging my thoughts on this complicated subject, but I have never found a way to effectively argue to a skeptic that this sort of altruism is true from this standpoint. The fact is, the Bible claims that it is possible, therefore I

[sargonepsilon]

You are most certainly not an objectivist, my friend.

[mad_dog_bowers]

No, I am not. They had some good ideas though, so I took them.

[mad_dog_bowers]

Although to be fair I think the particular way that I reconcile the bulk of Objectivist thought with my religion is rather interesting especially since I don't believe in pure altruism from a purely biological/reason standpoint. Ugh I need to stop this, I can't post on this thread until I ask Aaron if I am allowed to talk about theology with it.

[synderon]

As long as it's on topic you can take it any direction you want. Just remember that not everyone will share spiritual views and that saying "Because God said so" isn't an argument. I hear that a lot on Christian forums and it pisses me off.

[mad_dog_bowers]

You should know better than to expect that from me.

[hlangin]

It is alright to take what you like from particular philosophies and incorporate them into your own life...I'm just not sure that you are giving people an accurate idea of what objectivism is when you mention it. Although it should really be everyone's own responsibility to look it up. It is interesting to hear your ideas combining Christian theology with Objectivism. :)

[mad_dog_bowers]

I am not trying to give anyone any idea of what Objectivism is, only the one aspect I explained in the previous topic. It is everyones responsibility to look it up if they don't understand it. Here and now for the record, my philosophy, while being influenced my many things including Objectivism and being still changing and being shaped, is entirely my own. I am not trying to portray to anyone else's philosophy.

[sargonepsilon]

I would love to hear your rationalization of the two, since your interpretation of Christianity (as you've talked about it in this topic especially), and objectivism seem be opposite at a fundamental level.

[mad_dog_bowers]

Not really although I am not surprised that you think so. Easier to tell you in person though since I see you quite a bit. Unless of course the audience feels they would benefit from it but I think the opposite viewpoint has been previously expressed.