12-21 There's Something About Mary
What did you think of this episode? I'd love to hear it in the following poll and/or comments!
Poll 12-21 There's Something About Mary
My thoughts -( are under here )
Poll 12-21 There's Something About Mary
My thoughts -( are under here )
So, you expected her death to be down off screen, as if she didn't even deserve any kind of death scene?
I also suspect she was only going to be on the show for three eps so it was necessary to kill her off somehow.
Even if she was only booked to be on three eps, it doesn't mean that it's necessary to kill her off. It's the other way around... she's only in 3 eps because they decided to kill off her character. She could've easily returned for more eps.
I do not understand this way of thinking. An insult to whom? And why would a baddy care about insulting a disability?
It has nothing to do with Ketch. It's an insult to Eileen for her disability to be used against her in this way. She was a great hunter, someone who rose above her limitations, but here, her disabilities made her a victim, unable to fight back. In the end, she's defined by her disability, and that's tragic.
I do not admire Ketch. I admire the actor and the writers who created the character. I think he portrays an awesome villain
Ok, but you did say that you appreciate him for his cruelty (the way he killed Eileen). Your enthusiasm for his character, right after talking about Eileen's death (and not expressing any sadness about her death) makes it sound like you care more about him than you do about her.
You can't have a perfect villain without being able to see the human side of them and sympathize with him/her somehow and they've really done that for me with Ketch
So, Ketch can cross any line, murder Magda, Mitch, Eileen, brainwash Mary, plan to wipe out all the hunters in America, lock down Sam and Dean in the bunker to die... and we're supposed to sympathize with him?
I know people dislike Mary this season, and I can understand it, but I personally am more interested in the "why" of Mary's actions rather than judging her for them.
About the "why"... Mary's actions don't make sense, and it doesn't justify her behavior.
Re the letter, it's possible she was worried Sam and Dean's phones were bugged too, and the computers were hacked.
Good point, but she still could've contacted Sam and Dean, without letting on that she's being followed.
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It's cute how you've grown so attached to this character. I didn't say she didn't deserve a death scene. I said I didn't expect it. And, no I don't care about her as much as you do. I care more about Sam and Dean and the plot. We hardly got to know her even in the eps she was in. I care for her around the same as I do Max and Alicia. Of course, she could have become a major character, she was adorable, and I loved her with Sam, but maybe her schedule didn't allow it.
An insult to Eileen - so you are talking about insulting a character in the show... by a baddy... what was he supposed to do? Let her commit harakiri? He's a baddy of the worst kind. He is supposed to insult her. That is what makes her death so horrible and make us (and Sam and Dean) outraged at Ketch and the BMoL. As to the hunter's funeral, I am very sure she got one. We just didn't see it on screen.
So, Ketch can cross any line, murder Magda, Mitch, Eileen, brainwash Mary, plan to wipe out all the hunters in America, lock down Sam and Dean in the bunker to die... and we're supposed to sympathize with him?
Did I say YOU were supposed to? I don't think I did. But I would, sympathize with him for the pain HE went through to become what he became. The BMoL did this to him, and he is just as much a victim as a villain in that sense. His sympathy for Mary make me also wonder about him, and hope that maybe there is some humanity left in him and then also shake my head and think... nah... THAT's why this character is so awesome for me.
Mary's actions don't make sense, and it doesn't justify her behavior.
How do you know they don't justify her behavior if they don't make sense to you? I like to keep searching to make sense. That's me.
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An insult to Eileen - so you are talking about insulting a character in the show... by a baddy... what was he supposed to do? Let her commit harakiri? He's a baddy of the worst kind. He is supposed to insult her
It's an insult to the character by the writers... I don't care that Ketch did it for shock value. THIS ISN'T ABOUT HIM, IT'S ABOUT HER, for all the reasons I stated above in my comment.
Did I say YOU were supposed to? I don't think I did
Actually, I used the word WE, and I was trying to make a point. And you answered my question... you're sympathetic to Ketch, no matter how much bad stuff he does.
How do you know they don't justify her behavior if they don't make sense to you? I like to keep searching to make sense. That's me.
One example... Mary wants to rid the world of monsters so her children won't have to hunt anymore. It's impossible to do this. There's an endless variety of monsters, some that they probably don't even know about, and they can't track them all. They can't get rid of all ghosts.. new one keep getting made. What about witches? New ones can pop up, too. Monsters can also come from other dimensions, like Purgatory. Also, Sam and Dean sometimes deal with human "monsters", like in The Benders. So, there's no way for this to make sense.
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That said I think the character got plenty of time in the ep with regard to mourning. Lovely scenes by Sam and Dean mourning and being angry and vengeful on her behalf - just as good or even better than seeing her get a funeral and more important to me than seeing some dramatic death that she may have deserved.
It's an insult to the character by the writers... I don't care that Ketch did it for shock value.
You see, that is a concept I do not understand. Writers do not/cannot insult characters. They make them and then they write what each character would do in a given situation. They wrote Eileen, they wrote Ketch. Ketch is the type of psycho that would kill Eileen with a Hell Hound, and so they wrote him killing her with a Hell Hound. The writers did not kill Eileen, Ketch did, in the way he most likely would (in their mind).
Also, Ketch did not do it for shock value. He did it because he thought it was fitting - like any psycho would. You're a killer, and bored, you think of "interesting" ways to kill your victims. It's sick, yeah, I know. But it had to be sick because he's psycho.
The BMoL have shown Mary first hand how ruthless they are with the monsters and have obviously told her that they have no monsters in GB. She believes them because she really really wants to - because she so desperately wants to rid the world of monsters. (I don't think she is thinking of ghosts and witches and other human monsters.) The thing she hates the most is that Sam and Dean are hunters, right? so it sort of does make sense that she would be all one-tracked about getting rid of them on her own. She does have a very one track mind, just like Sam aye? Very goal oriented - light at the end of the tunnel type person. It is quite clear from all she has said that Mary thought she was doing this all for Sam and Dean.
That is a very good point though. That Mary, trying to get rid of monsters, was actually working with the worst kind of monster - humans. I think that's a Season 12 theme. :)
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When I say "deserve", I'm talking about her deserving a death that's shown on screen, that's all. And they can always make time for a character's death to be part of a ep.
That said I think the character got plenty of time in the ep with regard to mourning. Lovely scenes by Sam and Dean mourning and being angry and vengeful on her behalf - just as good or even better than seeing her get a funeral and more important to me than seeing some dramatic death that she may have deserved.
I agree that there were some good scenes, but I also wanted them to honor her with a hunter's funeral. About her deserving a "dramatic death" or not... Eileen's death isn't just about Sam and Dean's reaction to losing her, or furthering the seasonal storyline, she's a character in her own right. We've only seen Max and Alicia one time before, but the show devoted an entire ep to them leading up to Alicia's "death". So, it doesn't matter that we only say Eileen in a few eps... she had a close friendship with Sam, she was a Legacy, and she wasn't a minor character.
You see, that is a concept I do not understand. Writers do not/cannot insult characters. They make them and then they write what each character would do in a given situation.
Of course they can insult characters... they write the words, they make the choices. And yes, the writer's did kill Eileen... it was their decision to have Ketch do it, so they're responsible. They chose the way that she'd die.
The thing she hates the most is that Sam and Dean are hunters, right? so it sort of does make sense that she would be all one-tracked about getting rid of them on her own.
Right, but her premise that she can get rid of monsters doesn't make sense. And ghosts, witches and human monsters do count, whether she factors them in, or not.
It is quite clear from all she has said that Mary thought she was doing this all for Sam and Dean.
Sam and Dean made it very clear to her that they're happy being hunters... she's the one who's trying to force her utopia of a monster-free world on them.. a utopia that'll never exist. Anyway, everything that Mary is doing makes sense to HER, but that doesn't mean that it makes sense to ME.
That is a very good point though. That Mary, trying to get rid of monsters, was actually working with the worst kind of monster - humans. I think that's a Season 12 theme. :)
That's true. :)
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