There was a recent discussion on talk.origins on "When does Life begin?". The discussion centers around the 'legal' and 'moral' implications of 'destroying' three Frozen Embryos
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Wow... The last para just scared me. Sorry for the reaction but that is the first time I hv heard of that way to end the show (If u catch my drift). I gotta think about it though... considering you sound so confident about Euthanasia, you must hv thought quiet a lot about it.
As of now, I would like to let Nature take its course, no specific intrest in me to speed up or slow down the length of my life (you can call me plain lazy :P)
About Euthanasia, I think it should be allowed but reviewed if possible case to case. I am scared of ppl taking advantage of it if its made legal.
About the Embryos, I would like to look at Embryos like seeds... Each time a seed is thrown away or destroyed a possible plant or tree is denyed birth. I heard somewhere that a indivisual embryo has a very low survival rate even in the womb of a woman, this is similar to the odds that a seed(amoung a group of seeds) will become into a plant.
Its a very thin line we are dealing with but your argument has bought some fresh ideas into the debate.
Not saying its a bad idea, Most ppl just ignore that they are throwing away seeds(dont consider them as carriers of life) which is weird coz most of them are the same ppl who are against destruction of Embryos.
You raise a very valid point. If its all about 'right for life' the same must be applied to every life form (including eating seeds, roots and whole plants).
Well, a sperm / egg is technically just 'half a cell'. Atleast a sperm doesn't "multiply" so its not 'life' (but then, so is a worker ant which is 'sterile').
You have raised a funny and valid point about masturbation/casual sex. yeah, that is then true by this view of 'its wrong to deny something its life'.
But then, there is a subtler problem: At what stage is 'abortion' allowed? You see, the baby, even after birth, is very dependant on the mother for its food (milk, care, etc.,.). So does the mother have the right to kill it post-birth too?
I say, the answer is here when you start addressing it using the 'pain caused' as the primary parameter.
I mean when the fetus is dependant on the mother for food, blood, warmth, etc., internally in her body.
"even after birth, is very dependant on the mother for its food (milk, care, etc.,.). "
Milk is not necessary. A father (or anyone else for that matter) can give it food and such, but the fetus not *feeding off of them*. Parents can walk away from a baby, but they cannot from a fetus. The fetus is either in the mother, or dead.
To my mind, rights and morals are not elements of nature, but rules that living creatures set for themselves, to ease their mutual co-operation. Arguably, this mutual co-operation tends to be more beneficial to some than to others, but I think that is another issue.
Exactly, For, a queen bee makes its own worker ants slog like asses. But every conflict resolution between individuals is done very economically (like "fight" for territories). I think the rules of society are also such conflict resolution techniques, a bit too amplified and 'confused' because of the large brain.
the act of euthanasia should be done only if the person involved is physically so beyond help, that every moment of his life is painful and miserable, to put it mildly.
errr... why cant i die because i am happy and content? (The definition of euthanasia is very twisted)
Exactly. That is exactly what I want to do after I meet a *deadline*. 50 years of experiencing this flesh and blood body and couple with it the fact that I'm *dead* sure my physical abilities will start degenerating shortly thereafter, I want to die right there. Call it a life.
Hmm... I'm probably going to put a Recurring Deposit for some 'nice' hitman to hit a 50 year old guy on the day after my birthday in the year 2031 (just in case, I don't 'meet' my deadline on my birthday). Ask him to _only_ shoot in head and _not_ torture at all.
Euthanasia ought to be every body's Birth-Right!
Enough posting about a death-that-will-occur-25-years-later, I have to go watch Seinfeld now!
two of the things i have long had stringent thoughts over and i like the way you connect them!
The first... am poor with the genetic fundas and most of it is OHT(over head transmission) ... (lots already has been said) .. i leave the issue for the wise folks out there!
... and how many of you are for legalising Euthanasia? I do not understand why there is a question about legalising it at all!
Suppose i attempt killing myself at 40... : if i succeed , think people are fools to fight for convicting me for my death! If i fail..then i bloody suck! If i cannot flag off my own death then i should be punished with few more days of physical life to know how to accomplish finishing that! Know all you can and then go! (May be this is offtrack the reasonable discussion this post is aimed at but this is how i see it)
Looking at this issue rationally, why is killing a plant / bacteria 'totally fine' with people while killing a 'conscious animal' is not? I think this view point of "must not kill animals but can kill plants" is rational. and
( ... )
Suppose i attempt killing myself at 40... : if i succeed , think people are fools to fight for convicting me for my death! If i fail..then i bloody suck! If i cannot flag off my own death then i should be punished with few more days of physical life to know how to accomplish finishing that! Know all you can and then go! (May be this is offtrack the reasonable discussion this post is aimed at but this is how i see it)
Is it really that you have chosen '40' as the age for yourself to 'buy THE ticket'?
btw, A Guide to Suiciding might be of help. But then, I have a lot of years left to read that up! ;)
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As of now, I would like to let Nature take its course, no specific intrest in me to speed up or slow down the length of my life (you can call me plain lazy :P)
About Euthanasia, I think it should be allowed but reviewed if possible case to case. I am scared of ppl taking advantage of it if its made legal.
About the Embryos, I would like to look at Embryos like seeds... Each time a seed is thrown away or destroyed a possible plant or tree is denyed birth. I heard somewhere that a indivisual embryo has a very low survival rate even in the womb of a woman, this is similar to the odds that a seed(amoung a group of seeds) will become into a plant.
Its a very thin line we are dealing with but your argument has bought some fresh ideas into the debate.
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(The comment has been removed)
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You have raised a funny and valid point about masturbation/casual sex. yeah, that is then true by this view of 'its wrong to deny something its life'.
But then, there is a subtler problem: At what stage is 'abortion' allowed? You see, the baby, even after birth, is very dependant on the mother for its food (milk, care, etc.,.). So does the mother have the right to kill it post-birth too?
I say, the answer is here when you start addressing it using the 'pain caused' as the primary parameter.
Reply
"even after birth, is very dependant on the mother for its food (milk, care, etc.,.). "
Milk is not necessary. A father (or anyone else for that matter) can give it food and such, but the fetus not *feeding off of them*. Parents can walk away from a baby, but they cannot from a fetus. The fetus is either in the mother, or dead.
Reply
(The comment has been removed)
Totally.
To my mind, rights and morals are not elements of nature, but rules that living creatures set for themselves, to ease their mutual co-operation. Arguably, this mutual co-operation tends to be more beneficial to some than to others, but I think that is another issue.
Exactly, For, a queen bee makes its own worker ants slog like asses. But every conflict resolution between individuals is done very economically (like "fight" for territories). I think the rules of society are also such conflict resolution techniques, a bit too amplified and 'confused' because of the large brain.
Dawkins talks about conflict resolution and Evolutionary Stable Strategies in his book 'The Selfish Gene'. Good stuff.
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errr... why cant i die because i am happy and content?
(The definition of euthanasia is very twisted)
Reply
Hmm... I'm probably going to put a Recurring Deposit for some 'nice' hitman to hit a 50 year old guy on the day after my birthday in the year 2031 (just in case, I don't 'meet' my deadline on my birthday). Ask him to _only_ shoot in head and _not_ torture at all.
Euthanasia ought to be every body's Birth-Right!
Enough posting about a death-that-will-occur-25-years-later, I have to go watch Seinfeld now!
Reply
You gave the points..people will keep drawing the rays and segments!!
btw..just saw your mood icon and i am ROTFL!
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The first... am poor with the genetic fundas and most of it is OHT(over head transmission) ... (lots already has been said) .. i leave the issue for the wise folks out there!
... and how many of you are for legalising Euthanasia?
I do not understand why there is a question about legalising it at all!
Suppose i attempt killing myself at 40... : if i succeed , think people are fools to fight for convicting me for my death!
If i fail..then i bloody suck! If i cannot flag off my own death then i should be punished with few more days of physical life to know how to accomplish finishing that! Know all you can and then go!
(May be this is offtrack the reasonable discussion this post is aimed at but this is how i see it)
Looking at this issue rationally, why is killing a plant / bacteria 'totally fine' with people while killing a 'conscious animal' is not? I think this view point of "must not kill animals but can kill plants" is rational. and ( ... )
Reply
If i fail..then i bloody suck! If i cannot flag off my own death then i should be punished with few more days of physical life to know how to accomplish finishing that! Know all you can and then go!
(May be this is offtrack the reasonable discussion this post is aimed at but this is how i see it)
Is it really that you have chosen '40' as the age for yourself to 'buy THE ticket'?
btw, A Guide to Suiciding might be of help. But then, I have a lot of years left to read that up! ;)
Left comments on your Tangents post. :)
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