"Look at my cool tattoo!" or Thoughts on the Dark Mark

[sulky_rhino]

I came across another fic today where Harry sees Snape's/Draco's arm with its Dark Mark and is shocked/disgusted/saddened/etc. by seeing it. And I was thinking that it doesn't really make much sense for it to be visible.

Comments

[sulky_rhino]

I'm glad. :D And sorry it took so long to reply. I'm sort of slow. It's the heat. :P

[calanthe_fics]

Having written a Dark Mark fic, I have mulled over most of the things you mention, plus some other points relating to the why's and wherfore's. I chose to interpret that after Voldie called everyone back to his circle in GoF, when he was 're-born' for want of a better description, that he would have had the ability to once again manipulate the dark Mark, using it to contact his DE's

[sulky_rhino]

Yup, that's what I think too. The Mark faded when he "faded", and when he came back he could call them again . :)

But I'm really doubtful if it was at all visible to others besides the Marked while he was gone... I mean, even Voldemort says "it's back" when he looks at Peter's (red) mark before he calls for the DEs. I understood that like this: the Mark turns red (he's anouncing his return), then he calls the DEs by putting his hand on it, and the Mark turns black (Snape says it burnt black). So I thought the Mark sort of turns from flesh becoming more red and then into black, and then back into flesh again. But I'm probably overanalysing, and it's just a plot-hole. :D

[calanthe_fics]

Oh, I know what you mean. Sometimes, I sweat over her inconsistencies, trying to find a REASON for her to have done whatever it is ON PURPOSE, when the reality is it's more than likely jus an inconsistency!

[sulky_rhino]

Yeah. Usually when there's something weird in the books that just doesn't make any sense, I either explain it by "it's magic, so it doesn't have to make sense" or that it's a plothole. :)

[mordyn4]

You know what surprised the hell out of me? Barty!Moody's ability to make Snape's mark burn by touching his own on a polyjuiced form. (GoF - on the stairs up to Gryffindor tower when Harry's under the cloak but his leg is stuck in that damn faux step)

Seems unlikely on many levels.

Cool meta post, mate. I envision the mark as a faded outline most of the time. *shrugs* Canon is obviously lacking on clarity, if the range of variation in interpretation means anything.

[sulky_rhino]

Oooh, I totally forgot about that scene! Maybe it's Snape's subconscious that's reminding him about it? Sort of like if you forget that you hurt yourself, but then somebody reminds you, it starts hurting again? Because otherwise it just doesn't make sense (again). :D

[rubymoth]

I'm wondering what would be the done thing here, then, in terms of trying to adhere to 'canon'? In most fics, it's 'visible' simply because it's easier and/or not thought of, and yet it IS a plothole because of the vagueness of it. If one wants to stick to canon as much as possible, how would one even go about trying to do so, considering she's created the inconsistency? Is it just that it's easier to say that after GoF and His return, the Marks are black against the skin?

Maybe it's just one of those things where it's confusing because she HASN'T spelled it out, and yet we're supposed to divine it from what's there? (leaving too much to the imagination and therefore getting left out altogether)

This is very compelling evidence though that Draco already bears the Mark, because it makes more sense as to why, visible or not, Draco wouldn't want Madam Malkin messing with his left forearm that day in HBP, if it had been freshly given to him.

[sulky_rhino]

I totally forgot about the scene at Madam Malkins! (I should probably reread the books again...) :D I've seen people explain that in several ways too; he had the Mark and he didn't want Madam Malkin to see it, or he had the Mark and it hurt when she was poking his arm (which is why he slapped her hand away), or he faked one because he knows he has to go to Borgin & Burkes and that's a way to threaten the owner.

But I was just thinking in terms how "stupid" the Dark Mark would be if it was visible all the time and anybody could see it... Unfortunately there are quite a few things like that in the books. Some things just don't make much sense. :)

[rubymoth]

You know, usually I complain bitterly about inconsistencies and gaps in canon, but in the case of HP, I'm starting to believe it's a good thing to have them, because it leaves more room for creative license on the part of the fanficcers. :) We can interpret it in many different versions and ways, and there's never a need to feel guilty about it.

So we could actually describe it any way we want to see fit for particular fics and get away with it, I guess.

I'm still wondering if Draco would have any scars on his chest from the Sectumsempra - they'd used Dittany on his face, of course, but its true they might not have enough in stock, and he could indeed still have those there. interesting. so we can still be writing him having been marked by Harry even though his face is ok in canon. (not even addressing the possible Glamour here to cover it, if they didn't have any.)

[sulky_rhino]

Or the cut could've been deeper on his chest, so there's a scar because of that. But who cares for ifs and whys... as long as we get to "see" some Malfoy chest I'm happy. ;P

I think it's strange though, that I've come across so many fics where the Mark is visible (before or after Voldemort's death), or it's not there at all (because Voldemort died or somebody removed it), but I don't remember reading any fics where it's only visible to certain people or when the person wants it to be seen... It'd be cool to read a story where only Voldemort and those marked by him could see it (which could include Harry). :)

[tunxeh]

Interesting. There's a passage in OotP (during Harry's Occlumency lessons) which also suggests to me that the Dark Mark is normally invisible:'Dumbledore is an extremely powerful wizard,' Snape muttered. 'While he may feel secure enough to use the name . . . the rest of us . . .' He rubbed his left forearm, apparently unconsciously, on the spot where Harry knew the Dark Mark was burned into his skin.
I suppose he could be rubbing the arm through his robes, but it makes more sense to me to read that as if Harry knew where to look to see the Dark Mark but that it wasn't visible at that time.

On the other hand, if it were invisible why would Malfoy care about having his sleeve rolled up?

[sulky_rhino]

I reread that scene, and it's really strange. Madam Malkin wants to shorten the sleeve and Draco complains about where she's putting the pins. So I guess that could mean he doesn't want her to see his Mark. However, how short did she want to make the sleeve? The Mark is somewhere between the wrist and the elbow (I guess), so to shorten the sleeve so that it'd be seen seems to me like a really weird length for a sleeve... It makes more sense that she tried to shorten it at the wrist. Also, right after that, Draco pulls off the robes. So if he was afraid of her seeing his arm, why take off the robes where everyone can see? Unless he had long sleeves underneath, but that again doesn't explain why he'd be afraid of Madam Malkin rolling up the sleeve then.

I do think him complaining has something to do with the Mark. But maybe it has more to do with it still being painful? :)